Originally Posted by fixxervi6
I'm with you on this one, I don't know any of the players either. But it sure seems like a pissing match over who will reach the end of the system first.
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
I'm with you on this one, I don't know any of the players either. But it sure seems like a pissing match over who will reach the end of the system first.
Just my FYI
I do not know any of these people either but it seems to me the complaint is filed and the response is in. Now all we need to do is weigh the facts.
If we look at the complaint and then the second post of Chuck, there is no offering of any facts other then the link to the Facebook page of the other diver (Steve Cushman). I personally do not see any mention of the 600' dive Chuck refers to. I also find it interesting there is the reluctance of the complaintant to devulge his sources of the 3 depths mentioned. How are we supposed to know it to be truth or gossip? I would lean towards gossip otherwise the depth would have remained constant.
Now if we look to the response, I see explainations surrounded by evidence to support the exact counterclaims in the response. As I read through the emails, I could not help but notice there are very friendly words between Chuck and Colin. But then after Colin informs Chuck about his mooring system, I see Chuck go off the deep end with very offensive language and slanderous remarks towards Steve and Colin. I did hit on the fact that Steve had not yet even entered the arena at this point in the argument. Another important counterclaim is the lack of the Cushman/Irons team to interfere with GSEP or cause any harm what so ever to their efforts. I can clearly see the GSEP team was not there when the Cushman/Irons team was so how do you get interference?
My opinion is this, I see a little pride from both sides. We all are proud of our accomplishments otherwise why attempt them. I also see a certain amout of deception as illustrated in the emails from Chuck to Colin. He outright approves their diving and then chastises them publicly for their actions. Chuck has offered no proof as to whether these guys actually did any of the things he claims. Right now we are all left to speculate they have not and it is only the mere assumptions they were going to that has fueled this whole issue.
All I can say is it is not good etiquette to demand an apology for an action that has not occured. It is evenmore inhumane to assume someone is going to do something and never have taken the time to confront them but instead go to great lengths and expense to circumvent the very approval you gave. The bottom line is set the desired rules in place or don't complain when someone supposedly breaks your rules of nonexistence!
Too much to read...
Looks like the organization provided enough information for a couple of guys to go out and dive, and then was surprised when the couple of guys actually went out and did it. At that point it became a contest over who uses the largest catheter.....
That's my reader's digest version - I remember in 1992 a guy looked up and said "Can't we all just get along"......
Mark
since when is it against the rules to add line to a cave?????
Last edited by Sludge; 11-16-2009 at 08:50 PM. Reason: bbcode
blessed are the cracked for they let in the light!
My PP is bigger than your pp!
But I had it first!!!
It's not that it is against the rules to add line to a cave; it is a matter of common courtesy. While we all see that Cushman/Irons demonstrated proper cave diving courtesy to Chuck Noe and the GESP team in their emails, what we do NOT see is common courtesy coming back. There is no proof Cushman and Irons have added any additional line to any system, therefore, no apology needed. However, we see by Chuck Noe's own admission he breeched standard protocol of common courtesy which led to the issuance of an apology. Could this possibly be his attempt at revenge? He got caught and had to apologize and now wants an apology back as if somehow this will make up for his past mistake. I can assure him there is no apology that will undue what he has done. And by apology, I also mean that to be an apology to him will not make up for his childish behavior for starting this thread.
Speaking of childish, I especially enjoy all of the comical posts such as "My PP is bigger than your pp". With such a immature post as the one started here by Chuck Noe, hell let's all make fun of it! Keep those hilarious posts coming!!!!
Mom!!!! He's touching me!!!!
By the way... has anyone picked up on this?
Mr. Noe started this thread and a few people posted and inquired about the Cushman/Irons' side. So Cushman posted their response and almost immediately Chuck Noe responded to the post. Since then I haven't seen Cushman or Irons on here. Chuck just had to get the last word in.... seems awful familiar to the childish phrase "But - he started it!"
Why should "they?" "You" seem to be doing all the talking for them.
Jeff
No, not since I don't know any of them. I just can't stand to see two guys get slammed by childish antics such as those demonstrated by Chuck Noe. Who by the way, was very impressive to me in his Goodenough Springs Exploration Project prior to learning of his desire to own every system out there; as evidenced in his lack of compassion for courtesy to his fellow divers. Maybe I'm just more intuitive to the real underlying issue here - intimidation. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me Chuck openly invites other divers to share his experience with him right up until they get close to his limits and the intimidation sets in; then all he knows is to try and ruin the reputations of what I can obviously see being two qualified experienced cave divers that have demonstrated courtesy as shown in their emails to Chuck Noe.
However, this whole ordeal seems to be a tug of war between Cushman and Noe; they both have boasted about excessively deep dives and their abilities to push the limits. Question is, is it Noe starting the crap because his abilities are being compromised or is it Cushman starting crap by trying to compromise Noe’s abilities? I speak of Noe’s abilities because that is all that has been spoken about here. The only mention of Cushman’s abilities was from Noe stating that Cushman is too immature to make those kinds of dives. However, we see evidence they have both already completed those types of dives. The real point here is it’s just a pissing match between egos. Just not sure whose ego is getting bruised? We all know the guilty dog barks first; but the silent dog normally has more to say.
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