What would you do? (line safety situation)

[skip]

I like FW's idea... if I have interpreted it correctly... go back and gather additional mainline to extend your search... if gas didn't permit, the "bread crumbs" or "cave markings" would be my next choice.

*again, I admit my mistake of being ill equipped... yet this is not what we are discussing

I've posted in dive reports a request from matt just on the mistake of carrying one spool. The idea is that by exploring the thoughts (or lack thereof) that led to the one-spool gear configuration a sort of Non-accident Analysis can take place. Accident Analysis suffers from the lack of a control group or adequate comparisons, which would be an analysis of those situations in which people survive (despite problems with the potential for a bad outcome). No bashing or second-guessing, but an enlightened discussion of the thoughts and actions that lead to carrying one spool might be revealing. Complacency? Tenacity? Dedicated, but Poor Planning? Maybe another thread ?

-skip

[FW]

I like FW's idea... if I have interpreted it correctly... go back and gather additional mainline to extend your search... if gas didn't permit, the "bread crumbs" or "cave markings" would be my next choice....

Yes, that is correct.

LCF and BabyDuck's idea would work, except that the current had blown the loose line towards the entrance, out of reach. I also carry enough backup lights to make a pretty long "breadcrumb trail"

I would only consider a breadcrumb trail in a cave without much silt, and fairly good flow. Most of the places I dive are low current, and very silty, so no chance of following the trail.

Current can be a dangerous thing to follow too. I got off the (very black) line between Catfish Hotel, and the main spring at Manatee. I tried to follow the current out, and ended up in a dead end room.

[FW]

I've posted in dive reports a request from matt just on the mistake of carrying one spool. The idea is that by exploring the thoughts (or lack thereof) that led to the one-spool gear configuration a sort of Non-accident Analysis can take place. Accident Analysis suffers from the lack of a control group or adequate comparisons, which would be an analysis of those situations in which people survive (despite problems with the potential for a bad outcome). No bashing or second-guessing, but an enlightened discussion of the thoughts and actions that lead to carrying one spool might be revealing. Complacency? Tenacity? Dedicated, but Poor Planning? Maybe another thread ?

-skip

If you don't plan to do any jumps, one spool is supposed to be enough, but I agree that it sometimes isn't.

FWIW, I never carry less than 3, and add one for each planned jump.

[alias]

If you don't plan to do any jumps, one spool is supposed to be enough, but I agree that it sometimes isn't.

Thank you for telling this example, made me think. I was taught to carry two safeties, and I don't get it how one would ever be enough for me to feel secure. I have greatly enjoyed every time someone has posted real and imagined examples of scenarios where easy enough things have happened to show how sane it is to carry more than one safety.

I read on another board about lost line/lost buddy situation where one had to consider cutting the only safety after finding back on line to have enough left to look for buddy/get out another exit. Given it was imaginary situation, I would hate to be down to nothing to look with if I had huge gas reserves and knew my buddy was wandering in the darkness.

[IowaCaveDiver]

this was my response to skip on the dive reports forum.... trying to clear the air as to why I originally posted...

"Bugman,
you are right on... I typically dive with at minimum of 4 reels unless I have something larger planned. I normally (at least in the last year or two) dive with my girlfriend or we dive solo one after the other (if we have the young one with us). Our gear is seperated into two large rubbermaid bins and while I tote the analizer and bug spray, she totes the mass of reels.... when gearing up we each grab what we need. At the last minute on this night she decided not to dive, therefore not opening her bin. I made the mistake of not getting any reels because my normal routine was flawed (i'm a big fan of a strong routine when diving). Upon arriving at the spring and getting my tanks on I realized I didn't have a single reel with me. She volunteered to go back to the boat ramp and get them for me... she returned with a primary and a safety, and I made the error to decide to dive with them anyway. I own my error.
I posted this thread to share a dive report, not for accident analysis. I posted on the main forum to share a situation and ask what would you do if faced with the same situation. If your (and i'm not directing this to skip, but to everyone) answer is, you would never be in that situation because you would never make the mistake of being ill equipped, then it is not necessary for a response. I had hoped my inital post clearly stated that I understand I did make a mistake, I owned it, and I was merely sharing my experience and asking what would you do? If nothing else, perhaps others who have made the same error but not had a situation similar to mine to deal with will learn the lesson I did. I had always been taught and I continue to teach that divers, especially cave divers, that have accidents are almost always diving above their ability/training level or they choose to do something that they know is against the rules or their abilities... I made the choice to be ill equipped and have learned from it. I have a story to tell, a lesson to remember, and a wad of old cave line that will serve as a reminder of what could have happened. I'm thankful nothing more serious did happen and I hope to be a better diver because of it. Perhaps others will too..."

[LiteHedded]

any idea what might have caused the line to break? was it in poor shape on the way in? did you get hung up on it and maybe that snapped it?

[rjack]

I carry one more spool than I think I need. So on a no jump dive I have a 150ft safety plus a second 100ft spool. I am generally adding 100ft spools for any jumps on top of these 2.

In your case I think I would have spooled back up about 1/2 of the safety and them gone left and right at angles from there to try and intercept the exit side. Going back to the start-start at the end of the inside end seems to be a bit far to me. Then again I don't know the system at all either.

[Gene Powell]

I've been in this situation before. I forgot that I had removed my backup spool from my ds pocket. I was making a "relaxation" dive one day in a small cave on the Suwannee. I got to a point where a collapse had occurred. Not wanting to call the dive, I used my safety reel( yeah I Know) to gap around the breakdown. In my hubris, I continued on thinking I had a spool in my pocket.
I swam around a pretty substantial line trap before encountering a restriction. While negotiating the restriction, My primary failed. No big deal, but while deploying my back up in the restriction, the vis went to zero. Again, no gig deal! Then I began my exit on the line. Remember the line trap? I did. It was a bad enough trap that I decided to deploy my spool that I didn't have with me.
I foolishly attempted to negotiate the trap in zero vis without a line. Like I said, this was a bad line trap. because of the cave I was in, I knew I didn't want to go far downstream without a line because of the nature of the tunnels. I finally aborted the attempt to negotiate the trap and tried in vain to wait out the silt. Not happening today! I finally decided that The only safe option I had was to swim back into the cave ( I knew the upstream portion of the cave was tight and would prevent my wondering) until I could get some vis, and at least keep my bubbles from trashing the trap area. As I swam into the cave past the point where I had turned, I found the line. I cut the line, and used it to negotiate the trap. I learned so much that day! Mostly about complacency and preparation. When I returned to the entrance, My wife was waiting patiently in the boat. She asked how it went. I told her that it was 15 minutes of intensity sandwiched between 2 30 min periods of total bliss. I agree with FW. Use the line. Just make sure you go back and fix it.
FWIW The biggest danger in an underwater cave is yourself. It's also your greatest resource.

[IowaCaveDiver]

i'm really not sure exactly what caused the break, however I noticed on entry that in many areas, especially the restrictions, the line was very slack. I originally noticed this when watching the youtube video of Agnes diving the system and had thought while making the video she broke the line, but then after getting into dive myself realized she didn't in fact do anything, that is just how the line is... very slack and likely to catch on things. I noticed several times the line catching on my fin heel area and also my pee-valve bolt (I hadn't dove with the bolt in for years but recently was having leaks so I put the bolt back in to minimize them). The several line hangups I had during the dive were easily noticed and corrected, but obvoiusly this one wasn't. I'm sure on entry any extra pulling or drag that could have been me hung up on the slack line could have been confused with the flow... I was working hard the whole dive due to the high flow and not wanting to touch delicate areas.

[K Mejean]

ICD thanks for posting this report. Being only cavern certified I haven't given a great deal of thought to multiple reels. My thought being that since I am only in the caverns right now I shouldn't need more than one. After reading you posts I started giving the need for extra spools some thought and have decided that I will be purchasing and carrying at least one more and maybe two. After all it doesn't hurt in the slightest to tote some extra gear when its that small and I definately never want to find myself in a situation similar to yours. So your post has at the very least helped a newbie keep from making the same mistake.