Death at P1 because of not running a line to OW?

[BabyDuck]

a search through the accident files will answer your question about did it happen or not. I do know that many years ago there was an open water diver fatality (memory tells me double fatality) at P1 - complete silt out, lost and running out of air in the cavern. This brings us to...

i'm not quite sure about this. i haven't had any luck with searching with a purpose, just random reading. i'm glad they're up in any way, shape, or form, but i haven't found them very searchable.

[Tegg]

IMHO best for that side would be a rail to block the giant stride, and entry only from the side because the limits of the OW part but who am I to say. I am glad there are stairs.

Putting a rail up patches a symptom. (Divers doing a giant stride without looking)

It does nothing to solve the problem. (Inconsiderate and possibly poorly trained divers)

[Gary]

I have read things like: “Why would someone run a line in the Ear on busy weekend when there are already 6 reels in place, ridiculous".

Always running a line is one thing. Running a line so that it becomes an impediment or danger to others is another.

One of the things that is (or should be) taught in cave class is to recognize when adding another line would become an impediment to others. Lines already in place have the right of way and it is your responsibility to run yours in a way not to interfere with the others.

If you can't run a reel without doing so it is your responsibility to call the dive and come back when you can run your reel without interfering with others.

[tmcdonal]

i'm not quite sure about this. i haven't had any luck with searching with a purpose, just random reading. i'm glad they're up in any way, shape, or form, but i haven't found them very searchable.

I've had luck using Google's "site search" to find things here that I can't find using the built in search. However, searching IUCRR's site for "Peacock" doesn't find it.

http://www.google.com/search?rls=ig&...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

-Tom

[alias]

Always running a line is one thing. Running a line so that it becomes an impediment or danger to others is another.

One of the things that is (or should be) taught in cave class is to recognize when adding another line would become an impediment to others. Lines already in place have the right of way and it is your responsibility to run yours in a way not to interfere with the others.

I think you are twisting the message a bit. I am talking about giving the evil eye to someone who might not be perfect but wants to run their own line in places that someone else thinks it’s futile. Not talking about creating spider webs or not being responsible. I have been to site where there was one reel in and that line was a hazard to everyone (and it wasn’t a line by a newbie judging by the deco bottles either). It was very hard to run ANY line around it in any sensible way, several distinguished divers muttered about it. Clueless and rude people tend not to care – or maybe running a line certain way is a clever way of getting the cave for yourself for the day

If you can't run a reel without doing so it is your responsibility to call the dive and come back when you can run your reel without interfering with others.

One could interpret that quite negatively on a bad day.

[RN]

Unfortunately, deco bottles have nothing to do with experience. Lots of newbie divers are jumping into dives that are way beyond their experience level. But that's a whole other thread...

[alias]

Unfortunately, deco bottles have nothing to do with experience. Lots of newbie divers are jumping into dives that are way beyond their experience level. But that's a whole other thread...

True, I should not even assume they weren't Intro level cave divers as nobody is stopping anyone dragging bottles there or someone else entering without laying a line

[NWGratefulDiver]

I think you are twisting the message a bit. I am talking about giving the evil eye to someone who might not be perfect but wants to run their own line in places that someone else thinks it’s futile. Not talking about creating spider webs or not being responsible. I have been to site where there was one reel in and that line was a hazard to everyone (and it wasn’t a line by a newbie judging by the deco bottles either). It was very hard to run ANY line around it in any sensible way, several distinguished divers muttered about it. Clueless and rude people tend not to care – or maybe running a line certain way is a clever way of getting the cave for yourself for the day

Brings a question to mind ...

I understand that the rule is you don't mess with someone else's line, but if someone's run a line in such a way that it's a hazard to other divers, would it not be reasonable to just reroute it a bit to remove the hazard potential? I mean, if you're leaving it there, and if they can follow it out when they return, what's the issue?

Or is that simply not something you'd ever consider doing? And if not, why not?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[jeandiver]

As for myself....
I NEVER touch another person's line etc...
Even if it's blowing in the wind , so to speak.
(I guess that comes from my instructors and mentors , NOT TO TOUCH another person's gear/stuff etc...Unless of course , it's an emergency)

But that's just me. I always try to make sure my tie-offs etc are good and tight. Actually , I was working with Cindy the other night practicing tie-ing off to the sides of the tunnel (in the catacombs) , keeping the line off of the floor etc.

I am always trying to learn new things. (not new to others , new to myself)

To all: thanks so much for such an interesting thread. At least for me , it helps me rethink things and keeps me MORE PRUDENT.

Jean

P.S. I don't dive Ginnie a lot , but I have seen some pretty nasty spagetti lines in the Ear. I'll leave the rest alone for now , since I don't dive the cave system that much to comment further.

[alias]

Brings a question to mind ...

I understand that the rule is you don't mess with someone else's line, but if someone's run a line in such a way that it's a hazard to other divers, would it not be reasonable to just reroute it a bit to remove the hazard potential? I mean, if you're leaving it there, and if they can follow it out when they return, what's the issue?

Or is that simply not something you'd ever consider doing? And if not, why not?

I would like more discussion on this too.

As for myself, I have touched another person's line already. It was flapping in the wind in the MIDDLE of the Eye, slack. If anybody, myself included had to make a hasty emergency exit through there it would have been a huge entanglement hazard. So while putting our own line in, we tidied that line in by pulling it under couple of rocks making sure it could be followed blind if anyone needed to. During my course I was taught to avoid touching others stuff but also not leave obvious safety hazards in cave.

I did not know what to heck to do with one line in P1 though. It was laid like a humongous Z. It was like someone first thought to go to Pothole side starting the line in OW from the Peanut side, then in the end changed their mind and zagged over to Peanut line anyway. It was pretty much impossible for anyone not to cross it because it covered the whole opening. In the end we did what everyone else did and just rudely crossed it because I am not comfortable taking someone’s whole handiwork out and redoing it.