When did it become okay to bend or break the rules?

[FW]

Not to hijack the thread,.....What about Sheck and his inverted milk jugs? Or his wax sealed flashlights?...

Sheck started diving after the BC was invented. It was John Harper that started diving with Clorox bottles. Milk came in glass bottles back then

[BearCub]

Seems to me there's a lot of semantic mumbo-jumbo about 'rules' vs 'guidelines' in this thread. What's the big deal about calling them rules? Don't you have to learn the 'rules' to pass your 'tests' in order to get your cave-diving certification? Whether Sheck thought they were guidelines or not then, they're rules now.

Andrew's post suggesting that some of the rules need to be made more conservative, and some added, is a great idea. That's, to me, akin to saying, "Let's use seatbelts so people don't go flying through the windshield of their cars."

I went to a trauma training at the hospital. When two cars bash into each other we no longer call it a car 'accident', it is now a car 'collision'. We were told this is because ALL car crashes are preventable, and therefore not accidents. I don't know if I categorically agree with that, but I do agree with the sentiment.

No one really knows what happened to Bruce and whether or not his death could have been prevented by following the rules. That sucks. If we ever do find out for certain, then maybe we need to change, or add to, the rules to make it so that it can't happen again. Unless people enjoy dying in caves.

[Kelly Jessop]

Seems to me there's a lot of semantic mumbo-jumbo about 'rules' vs 'guidelines' in this thread. .

I agree. I think there is a core set of guidelines/rules,and if the list is kept short and simplisitic then it is adopted easier. But,I agree there are things that deserve consideration that could be postulates- ie no 1/3rd in low flow/weak syphon etc.

[skip]

oohhh, postulates! I like that!

-skip

[Kelly Jessop]

oohhh, postulates! I like that!

-skip

I could say axiom,but that would be too much for someone who road the cave diving short bus.

[OFG-1]

I could say axiom,but that would be too much for someone who road the cave diving short bus.

ROAD the short bus?? Well, how was the ride, Kelly?

Postulates? Man, I hate it when my doctor checks my postulate. He has long crooked fingers.

[divindoubles]

Sheck started diving after the BC was invented. It was John Harper that started diving with Clorox bottles. Milk came in glass bottles back then

ISC

[aainslie]

ROAD the short bus?? Well, how was the ride, Kelly?

Postulates? Man, I hate it when my doctor checks my postulate. He has long crooked fingers.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure your doc keeps his fingers away from my axiom.

[skip]

postulate:

• - assume something: to assume or suggest that something is true or exists, especially as the basis of an argument or th…

• - claim something: to demand or claim something

• - something assumed true: something that is assumed or believed to be true and that is used as the basis of an argument…

In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident, or subject to necessary decision. Therefore, its truth is taken for granted, and serves as a starting point for deducing and inferring other (theory dependent) truths.
In mathematics, the term axiom is used in two related but distinguishable senses: "logical axioms" and "non-logical axioms". In both senses, an axiom is any mathematical statement that serves as a starting point from which other statements are logically derived. Unlike theorems, axioms (unless redundant) cannot be derived by principles of deduction, nor are they demonstrable by mathematical proofs, simply because they are starting points; there is nothing else from which they logically follow (otherwise they would be classified as theorems).


corollary:

natural consequence: something that is a natural consequence of or accompaniment to something else

• - statement easily proved from another: a proposition that follows, with little or no further reasoning, from the proof…

• - obvious deduction: something that is very obviously or easily deduced from something already proven

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[OFG-1]

postulate:

• - assume something: to assume or suggest that something is true or exists, especially as the basis of an argument or th…

• - claim something: to demand or claim something

• - something assumed true: something that is assumed or believed to be true and that is used as the basis of an argument…

In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident, or subject to necessary decision. Therefore, its truth is taken for granted, and serves as a starting point for deducing and inferring other (theory dependent) truths.
In mathematics, the term axiom is used in two related but distinguishable senses: "logical axioms" and "non-logical axioms". In both senses, an axiom is any mathematical statement that serves as a starting point from which other statements are logically derived. Unlike theorems, axioms (unless redundant) cannot be derived by principles of deduction, nor are they demonstrable by mathematical proofs, simply because they are starting points; there is nothing else from which they logically follow (otherwise they would be classified as theorems).


corollary:

natural consequence: something that is a natural consequence of or accompaniment to something else

• - statement easily proved from another: a proposition that follows, with little or no further reasoning, from the proof…

• - obvious deduction: something that is very obviously or easily deduced from something already proven

-skip

Sarcasm: the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky