The same thing is accomplished with the Bronze Wakulla Award according to a guide of many of these sites.Originally Posted by RN
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
The same thing is accomplished with the Bronze Wakulla Award according to a guide of many of these sites.
Abe Davis and Wakulla award are similar in concept,but are not the same. Wakulla award says,"100 hours bottom time or 100 safe cave dives...all certified cave divers",while Abe Davis,"... only after full cave". Hence by definition of the Wakulla award you could do 100 single tank cave dives at the intro level and receive the award. You may notice some site requriements don't mention the award,but 100 cave dives after full cave;one reason is because of the Wakulla award not being quite the same.
Last edited by Kelly Jessop; 08-10-2009 at 05:29 AM.
"Not all change is improvement...but all improvement is change" Donald Berwick
Kelly, you are mistaken on the training level required. The NACD form clearly states full cave ONLY. NACD full cave is "cave diver", intro/apprentice are not "cave diver" at least on the certification cards. The only difference between the NACD and NSS-CDS awards is that the CDS requires 100 dives while the NACD requires 100 hours OR 100 dives.
"
All certified full cave divers worldwide are eligible for this award. To be a recipient, a
diver must provide evidence of the stipulated number of dives/hours by submission of
photo copies of logged dives after full cave training is completed which have been
verified by a NACD Instructor.
The shoals are there still, the winds howl loud, the rain beats down, the waves burst strong. Some night, in the chill darkness, someone will make a mistake: The sea will show him no mercy. John T. Cunningham
You were the guide I was reffering to in my previous post. You stated that you don't scrutinize the logbook of someone with the Wakulla Award.
Either way, I always carry my logbook and don't mind that it be scrutinized. So there's still yet to be a benefit of having the Abe Davis while not being part of the CDS.
To be sure, having this requirement will have little effect on the awards , membership or CDS finances. I deal with Shirley as the Program Director for the Section. We estimated that of the awards issued(90-100) last year, 40 or so may have been non-members( not required to put member# on the app). If half of those 40 joined the CDS to get an award, after the expense of issueing that award, the CDS would have added $70 of memebership $$. As Mike P. points out, the original intent was to offer a safety award to anyone. Part of the intent was to represent the CDS to landowners and governments as being effective in the fight against cave accidents. There is a JPG of the UWS announcement when the awards were created that explain this. Does it apply today? Not sure. In any case, the BOD has already voted on this issue in their closed forum online to approve the membership requirement. The tally of that vote can be found on the open forum section of the site soon.
Frank Ohidy, Prgram Director, BOD-CDS
safe cave dives
After reading all the posts here I've decided to support the petition to return the Abe Davis award to all full cave divers, not just CDS members, and at NO charge to anyone.
I've read several times the "original intent" was to show the world that cave diving was safer than the death counts seem to indicate. That need is still with us today. In other threads we've all read about how caves are being closed, and/or restricted to certain people, primarily on the basis of how dangerous cave diving is. I do not see that those in authority have "come around" to the view that cave diving is safe and thus should be allowed without restriction to those appropriately trained.
In other words the original need that established the Abe Davis award is still with us today. The creation of a database showing how many cave divers have completed 100 or more cave dives is a very real and needed statistic, not one to be abandoned.
Some posts have shown that the dollar amount involved is not relevant, either charging or not charging, the difference is miniscule.
Some posts seem to be related to some idea about "if you don't pay, you don't get." This in-group mentality, this tendency to believe that "if you want something you must pay for it," as opposed to "if you've done something, you should be recognized and honored for it," is an unfortunate trend in our modern times.
I did not know that the BoD voted to exclude nonmembers, but I do now think it should be reversed. I urge all of you to sign this petition and I especially urge the BoD to reconsider. The NSS/CDS is not just for members. It's for all cave divers, members or not. If the NSS/CDS takes the stand that only it's members are entitled to benefits, only it's members are "worthy," because they pay to reap the rewards, then I want no part of the NSS or the CDS. I think the purpose of the NSS and the CDS should bigger than its membership. That's what I'm paying for.
-skip
"Learning the techniques of others does not interfere with the discovery of techniques of one's own." B.F. Skinner, 1970.
I think all cave divers should be members of both the cave diving agencies anyways just as a matter of principle. We're the ones who support the sport you love, so how about a little support back? I've been a continuous member of both since I first started cave diving......
Safe diving,
Rich
Rich,
Don't start bringing good ideas, reason and common sense into this discussion!
See ya' soon!
Dave
Dave Grimm
Now there was only me and this timeless, eternal cave. I felt part of things, a tolerant guest.
by Rob Palmer from "Deep Into Blue Holes"
Well said...
The shoals are there still, the winds howl loud, the rain beats down, the waves burst strong. Some night, in the chill darkness, someone will make a mistake: The sea will show him no mercy. John T. Cunningham
It is there now and has been since July 10. Here is the link: http://nsscds.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=509
BD
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