Sidemount VS Backmount

[jkaterenchuk]

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Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly). This means the diver is thinking only of #1 and the heck with other divers. I do not think this is a good attitude. Hose routing is just easier and cleaner with BM.

I recently took a SM course with Brian Kukak also and my config had a long hose which was very nicely routed. Clean and Easily accessible. In fact all the routing was clean and easy. Maybe you or the SM divers your with should look at the way Brian routes the hoses. I cannot say its better or worst than BM but I certainly would not agree with your statement.

John

[SuPrBuGmAn]

So don't use one. Half the people I dive with, dive BM without a manifold valve (just an open crossover). The reason is that the isolator adds failure points and only is required if you have a failure on the tank side of the post valves. There is not much that can fail on the tank side. Other than the blowout plug - which if it is "properly" fortified, is not an issue - the failure will be on the reg side. For everything else, you do have a buddy (or buddy bottle).

Burst disks DO go out... and there is always the chance that the cross over bar gets smacked good enough to rupture in some way. Gas empties quickly directly from the tanks.

This is a weak point for SM. Failures do occur in the reg and without a crossover, the gas is not nearly as accessible as with a crossover. I know you can feather a valve or swap regs underwater, but you are going to lose some precious gas and just as or more importantly you will lose time. With a crossover, you don't have to think because the gas is automatically there.

I consider it a strong point for SM, since you still have another completely independant tank. If you planned your gas management correctly, you can exit on the gas from a single tank.

Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly). This means the diver is thinking only of #1 and the heck with other divers. I do not think this is a good attitude. Hose routing is just easier and cleaner with BM.

My longhose is rigged in the same fashion as my BM rig. The only difference is that instead of coming from behind my head, its starting at my side with the excess looped and bungied in place on the tank itself. It still loops under my canister and across my chest, and around my head... like a hog backmount setup.

Staging is easier with BM because the bottles are in front of you.

You can stage the tanks infront of you just as with BM. There IS room.

[FW]

So don't use one. Half the people I dive with, dive BM without a manifold valve (just an open crossover). The reason is that the isolator adds failure points and only is required if you have a failure on the tank side of the post valves. There is not much that can fail on the tank side. Other than the blowout plug - which if it is "properly" fortified, is not an issue - the failure will be on the reg side. For everything else, you do have a buddy (or buddy bottle).

This is a weak point for SM. Failures do occur in the reg and without a crossover, the gas is not nearly as accessible as with a crossover. I know you can feather a valve or swap regs underwater, but you are going to lose some precious gas and just as or more importantly you will lose time. With a crossover, you don't have to think because the gas is automatically there.

Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly). This means the diver is thinking only of #1 and the heck with other divers. I do not think this is a good attitude. Hose routing is just easier and cleaner with BM.

Staging is easier with BM because the bottles are in front of you.

There seems to be less drag with BM. Take a diver configured properly in SM and BM and take their picture head on - side by side. There is about 30% more cross sectional area for the SM, so that would explain it. I have dove with SM's several times and usually end up waiting on them.

I have several issues with what you are stating.
One of the main points of sidemount is self sufficiency. If two sidemount divers are diving together, there is no need for a long hose, since each diver is self sufficient. When I dive with a backmount diver, I use a long hose (in fact I usually have in along). It is not even noticeable to most people. (IE it doesn't look ugly)

I have had several instances of total gas loss in backmount, so it isn't nearly as bulletproof as you might think. Like you said, a burst disk can loose it all, but so can a tank o-ring, or a good bang into the ceiling can cause the crossover (isolated or not) to leak. I agree you shouldn't be banging the ceiling, but accidents do happen.

I have dived both sidemount and backmount, with and without a DPV. I don't see any difference in penetration distance, if both rigs are properly streamlined. I will agree that proper streamlining is easier in backmount, but it is attainable in sidemount. Sidemount is wider, but the frontal area is the same, and that is what causes drag.

[Spd 135]

So don't use one. Half the people I dive with, dive BM without a manifold valve (just an open crossover). The reason is that the isolator adds failure points and only is required if you have a failure on the tank side of the post valves. There is not much that can fail on the tank side. Other than the blowout plug - which if it is "properly" fortified, is not an issue - the failure will be on the reg side. For everything else, you do have a buddy (or buddy bottle).

This is a weak point for SM. Failures do occur in the reg and without a crossover, the gas is not nearly as accessible as with a crossover. I know you can feather a valve or swap regs underwater, but you are going to lose some precious gas and just as or more importantly you will lose time. With a crossover, you don't have to think because the gas is automatically there.

Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly). This means the diver is thinking only of #1 and the heck with other divers. I do not think this is a good attitude. Hose routing is just easier and cleaner with BM.

Staging is easier with BM because the bottles are in front of you.

There seems to be less drag with BM. Take a diver configured properly in SM and BM and take their picture head on - side by side. There is about 30% more cross sectional area for the SM, so that would explain it. I have dove with SM's several times and usually end up waiting on them.

I move from one to both hoses long. If I dive with someone that is backmount I will have both hoses long that way either is available. If you look at the pic (gearing up) it is stowed and out of the way. When I dive with a s/m buddy I still have one long hose so I don't have to remove a bottle in small cave. This past weekend, Bugman and myself did Gator Hole. There are four or five really jagged restrictions that you have to fight to get through (belly to back). My long hose was never an issue because it is stowed down the side that is against my body.

In the water there is really no more drag in s/m. If my profile is wider, than it is shorter due to no tanks on my back. I haven't noticed a significant difference in drag between s/m or b/m. In s/m you have more staging options, above or below (mainstream) your bottles.

To say it adds drag, makes you slower, harder to stage, etc. is un-informed information, unless you are equally proficient in both styles. Both take practice and experience to get the most out of the style. To only qualify the style by which is simplest, kinda goes against the whole idea of technical diving. Managing multiple tasks, pieces of equipment, etc., is all part of technical diving. It all takes practice to master and that is the key to all styles of managing bottles.

Both styles have their upsides as well as downsides depending on what you are looking to do. Being able to move from one to the other as needed, or as the dive requires, is the sign of a seasoned and experienced diver.

[marclaukien]

Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly).

I copied Brian Kakuk's method to rig a 7' hose, and it's not ugly at all. See the attached pic. The long hose routes under the left arm, and then behind the neck (with an elbow on the regulator).

[ae3753]

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Another weak point for SM is that most do not rig a long hose, (or if they do, it looks real ugly) ... Hose routing is just easier and cleaner with BM.

I use Steve Bogaert's routing, and it's clean and similar to backmount Hogarthian routing. In fact, my chest in sidemount is the same as in backmount.

Long hose comes from the right hip, cross the chest to left shoulder, behind the neck and to the mouth from the right. Short hose comes from the left, behind the neck and to the mouth from the right.



Right now, the only sidemount con is gearing up in water. I'm currently more efficient in backmount, but this should come in time. I remember taking a while in backmount when I started too.

Once underwater, sidemount is a dream rig. Never had trim issues and I don't feel slower or less efficient than my backmount buddies. If anything, I feel less restricted and more efficient.

-Don

[Cantey]

I use Steve Bogaert's routing, and it's clean and similar to backmount Hogarthian routing. In fact, my chest in sidemount is the same as in backmount.

Long hose comes from the right hip, cross the chest to left shoulder, behind the neck and to the mouth from the right. Short hose comes from the left, behind the neck and to the mouth from the right.

so are your first stages facing up when you dive?

[FW]

so are your first stages facing up when you dive?

Mine are. Less chance of damaging them on rocks in low passage.

[Cantey]

Mine are. Less chance of damaging them on rocks in low passage.

I've thought about doing that with my setup, but I like that my valves turn the same way as if I were in backmount. Anyone else doing this? For those that don't, are you seeing any significant damage to your 1st stages?

[atedeschi]

my first stages are up as well so they are protected, works great.