Exceeding one's training

[Webmaster]

Because they did it wrong.

I'll bet none of them thought they were wrong when they started their dives.

[aainslie]

One was a Phd in math...
Another was an engineer...
There is no right way!

So thirds is wrong?

Come on. We've killed this one. None of you could come up with a logical responses other than "Coz Shek sez" or "It dun wurk fer a long time, don't fix what ain't broke" or some such nonsense.

All you're doing is making my point.

Back to the key point... exploration requires thinking beyond training - and hence, necessarily, "exceeding one's training". About the best crowd to create a rule-based system for exploration is GUE - yet even they essentially evolved an excellent system for a very particular type of cave. Show them small tunnel and their "team" system goes to hell in a basket.

[Bob Cree]

As has been stated, our successful completion of training is a license to learn. Agreed. In my earlier post, I was not outright bashing the one class or one instructor to full cave, just throwing big stones. Mainly I was trying to point out that the student likely missed something at the higher end of the learning process by doing it one shot and that they would have gotten much more out of their training by extending it. They missed an opportunity.

It is all about learning in as safe a way as possible. Learning from others who have been there done that (instructors or mentors) is a good way to do it. Certainly we didn't go to very many EOL's during Full Cave training, but we progressed there afterward. We did this over time using new (to us), more advanced techniques, things that did not come up in formalized training. So by definition, these new things we do, exceeds the training we have in hand (full cave class). There is no way around it. So in effect, exceeding one's training is part of the post "full cave" process.

I think the OP's question refers to below the level of full cave or equivalent. So LCF - is right in line with her training. But once full cave/mix, there is no formal training for more complex cave dives - NOR DO I THINK THERE SHOULD BE. For post full cave folks, perhaps the OP's question should be rephrased - how do we exceed our training safely?

I believe this is where mentorship can really play a role. It's continuing education for the more experienced. To paraphrase what Forrest said, experience could and should be used over and over so newer folks don't nave to reinvent the wheel. We not only must be willing to listen they have to say, but further, should seek their guidance out. I can't say how many times I thought there was a better way - tried it - and hmmm, guess they really do know something that I obviously don't.

On the other hand, there is a balance, new thinking is what takes us into the future. Pushing or pulling...whether we like it or not...the future is where we are all going.

How is that for straddling the fence.

Bob

[FW]

__________________
# Surfaces = # Dives = Good Day!

I just noticed your sig line. What if you do a traverse, and come up in several windows along the way? I have done a few in MX where I surfaced about 5 times in one dive. It does mess up your "formula" some

[sea2summit]

I just noticed your sig line. What if you do a traverse, and come up in several windows along the way? I have done a few in MX where I surfaced about 5 times in one dive. It does mess up your "formula" some

Depend's how you log it I guess

[Bob Cree]

I just noticed your sig line. What if you do a traverse, and come up in several windows along the way? I have done a few in MX where I surfaced about 5 times in one dive. It does mess up your "formula" some

It actually comes from my navy days. Lived for extended periods of time underwater inside a rather large rebreather. In fact, I probably have more RB hours under my belt than most. Seriously cool RB design BTW.

Lol - I was a submariner, and for us, a single dive was uniquely linked to a single surfacing event...at least that was what we planned, and most of our dives were traverses...

Not sure how to classify periscope depth stuff though - you are right, that might mess up the math.

Bob

[Gary]

Seriously cool RB design BTW.

Yeah! Ability to produce oxygen from water is a nice feature missing from most RB designs. And regenerating scrubber capacity.

I don't miss the recycled farts though (or much else).

[SMB]

When the NSS-CDS had it's first instructor crossover meeting, Rory Dickens made a wonderful statement. It sums up all of the above. He said: "Anyone can teach themselves anything, but it is much more efficient to learn from someone who has already done it".

Great quote Forrest,
I would just add 1 other important reason

"Anyone can teach themselves anything, but it is much more efficient and safer to learn from someone who has already done it".

[Bob Cree]

Yeah! Ability to produce oxygen from water is a nice feature missing from most RB designs. And regenerating scrubber capacity.

I don't miss the recycled farts though (or much else).

Except when you hear "fire in #2 O2 generator" over the MC. Talk about pucker factor.

I still have clothes packed away that even after 24 years, still have that unique aroma.

Unfortunately, that RB design is really tough fit through the ear...although it does have a built in scooter with some pretty awesome speed capability - imagine, ear to Henkle in under 2 minutes.

Bob

[aainslie]

Great quote Forrest,
I would just add 1 other important reason

"Anyone can teach themselves anything, but it is much more efficient and safer to learn from someone who has already done it".

Steve,

You to me are an excellent example of why people only staying within their learned skillset DOESN'T make sense. You spend you life outside the original skillset you learned.

You've rethought many of our diving protocols. People who take your classes learn techniques they won't learn anywhere else. And they're better divers for your being willing to NOT just follow others, but to rethink the way we dive.

Of course, once you've put the effort into it, we all get a huge efficiency boost by having you teach it to us. But without a few divers like you testing the orthdoxy, cave diving would stagnate and not advance.