Safety Bottle Caching At JB

[OutlawCaver]

I would like some opinions to start a dialogue on having several safety bottle air caches at JB. I am well aware of all the pros and cons of having such caches but please feel free to take your stand for others to read. We have several caches at Indian Springs both upstream and downstream and I must admit it is a nice feeling knowing those bottles are there if needed. I realize that seeing saftey bottles during your dive may spoil the scenary for you but let's at least discuss it here. My 1st thoughts are a single bottle at any or all of the following places: the 1st T, 3rd T, Elbow, Source Nouveau jump. These are all places to easily secure the bottle, easy to see and easy area to don.

Thanks in advance for your contribution.

Vince

[aainslie]

Well, if you DO establish a cache, I hope I'm not expected to pay for it, directly or indirectly. Because there's no way I'm going to plan my dives based on the assumption that someone else did/didn't set up the cylinder properly. And given that I think it's a bad idea, I'd hate to be taxed somewhere for something I don't want.

I pay enough educating my neighbors' kids as it is.

[OutlawCaver]

I have a bottle and a regulator to contribute. I am sure there are others that could help out if there is interest. No one has to worry about being asked to contribute monies in any way.

Vince

[Line Squirrel]

I pay enough educating my neighbors' kids as it is.

Amen brother

And ditto to what Andrew, Benthic (Brian) and SLIM all said.

[OutlawCaver]

This is great. Just the kind of dialogue I was hoping for.

[EEL]

Vince,

I think you may have poked a bee hive here; lets keep the safties out of the cave......

cheers,

Mark

[wingman]

Well, if you DO establish a cache, I hope I'm not expected to pay for it, directly or indirectly. Because there's no way I'm going to plan my dives based on the assumption that someone else did/didn't set up the cylinder properly. And given that I think it's a bad idea, I'd hate to be taxed somewhere for something I don't want.

I pay enough educating my neighbors' kids as it is.

Oh, good grief andrew...and you, for sure, i would have thought understood the concept of a positive externality...oh well. Of course you probably do enjoy a good free ride along with everone else, eh?

With regard to the rest of the comments i am reminded of a pretty famous speech in which it is said:

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Actually i like the idea of a gas cache and i like goldline/line (i do think there is way too much of it though) in the cave as well...now there's a public good no one seems to complain about much. Bill

[amphipod06]

Maybe a poll would be a better venue if you are trying to get an idea as to how many divers think it's a good or bad idea.

I believe that most, if not all, the practical reasons as well a the legal reasons for NOT having bottles all over the cave have been already delivered thoughout the thread.

I don't think it's a good idea for all the reasons already posted.

Dive safe,

Celia

[SLIM]

Not a problem Andrew, just remember the 6P's is all you need to know, LOL

Celia, I think that now that he has an idea of what some of the responses are and that he understands that he asked the question he was after wrong he relizes it.

From what he has stated later is that it was for him and his buddies on dives they are doing (must not be doing proper gas managment/planning) and not a safty to be used in the cave all the time for evreyone. I could be wrong.

That alone will be totaly differant then the way the original question came over as.

I still have to say that if htey do propper gas planning/managment then a safety is not needed unless they plan to push it. That then becomes unsafe diving practices.

SLIM

[wingman]

There are some gems from flying that are worthwhile to remember:

There's nothing more useless to you then the runway behind you, the altitude above you, the fuel still in the truck, the airspeed you don't have, and a half second ago. Here it is a gas reserve that you do not have.

I don't think anything was said that suggested normal gas planning was being adjusted to reflect the existence of extra gas cached in the cave. it is a cache.

When hiking in the desert i like to cache water and last time i was in the grand canyon...the las vegas dema... my cached water was used by a group orienteering who got lost and were in dire need when they stumbled on my cache in the early am. While i am uncertain as to the exactness of this i think that there was a recent ginne event in which it was a good thing that there was some cached gas in the cave.

While flying under imc (bad weather) the faa requires me to have enough fuel to get to my destination, then to my alternate and then be able to fly for at least 45 minutes...i always took comfort in knowing i had enough fuel for much more than an additional 45 minutes. Likewise i like diving with a spare bottle in the cave even though my gas planning ignores it. I like to think of this as engineered redundancy. So, simply, is it more safe or less safe?