Safety Bottle Caching At JB

[MedCop]

A "public" cashing of gas is a bad idea in my opinion. I think this opens up several things: 1) liability... I am NOT willing to take the responsibility of another diver using a tank I placed for the "public" to use. 2) People should plan the dive w/enough gas to complete the dive. If a diver thinks he/she needs to have a "safety" in place then they should place it themselves & not have someone holding their hand and placing a bottle for them.

I am not against placing safety gas for a dive I am doing. In fact if I was doing a very long push dive or exploration I think adding safety gas is a good idea no matter if diving OC or CC.

Public safety gas...NOT a good idea!

[rjack]

Public safety gas...NOT a good idea!

Ya think?

Maybe Outlaw should leave some cans of gas alongside I-10 to see how the concept works? I'm sure someone has run out of gas and missed their dive at JB.

[FW]

FWIW, I think the safety bottles at Indian are great, but the big difference is they are maintained by the guides, so you can be sure they are safe to use, and won't get stolen. In a public area like JB, or Devil's Eye, well....

[JoeyP]

You forgot "What if it is filled with tainted gas?". Imagine the multi tiered lawsuit then. Just cause you were trying to be a nice guy and got a fill at the wrong place.

I think it's a bad idea in general. For lots of reasons. Here are a few, in no particular order:

First of all, we're all big boys and girls who know (or are supposed to know) how to plan for our gas needs appropriately. This is a basic cave diving skill. Anyone who isn't comfortable doing such things has no business cave diving to begin with, and should never have made it out of class.

Second, who's going to supply and maintain these proposed bottles and regulators? Will they be standardized in any way? Should they be? What will they be filled with? How often are they going to be checked, and by who? Who is going to swap them out if they get low or somehow damaged.

Third, who's fault is it going to be when someone needs one of those bottles and it's not full, or doesn't function properly and the person who needed that gas winds up dead? We all know that in the wake of a fatality the odds of 'blame-storming' are high.

Fourth, in the event that someone uses one of those bottles it will be at least partially depleted and probably relocated. It may be removed from the cave. Who's going to have to refill it and replace it? What does the person in question do with this bottle that they have now removed from the system? What if it's late at night? What if it's the last dive before they head home to some place hundreds of miles away?

Fifth, do we really want to put forward the idea that there's gas in the cave for 'public' consumption. How long before people start grabbing the wrong bottles?

Sixth, where are all the 'cave trash' people and why aren't they jumping up and down on this one? This will have far more impact on the cave than plastic bats, frogs and other tiny toys that get hung on the line.

Personally I abhor what I call the 'nanny mentality' of trying to convince people at large that they are incapable of looking out for themselves. We all know the risks associated with cave diving and we each evaluate and deal with them as we see fit. Anyone who needs the illusion of safety that these bottles would provide is very likely diving beyond where they should be anyway. There have been more than a few discussions about people who dive beyond their limits, or people who stop training at the Intro level but dive at the Full Cave or Cave Diver level. The last thing we want to do is encourage that.

I think that the 'safety' concept works at Indian because access to the cave is very tightly controlled. Thus it's much easier to keep an eye on safety bottles and their status. However, I certainly don't think that the highly restrictive system of guides, waivers and safety bottles that is in place at Indian should be a model for other cave systems. In fact I think that the Indian model should be railed against and abolished wherever it appears...but that's a whole different conversation.

Brian

[aainslie]

Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

SLIM

Classic! I'm stealing it!

[Cantey]

Classic! I'm stealing it!

PPPPPP, I like.

[JDostal]

I think it's a bad idea in general. For lots of reasons. Here are a few, in no particular order:

First of all....*snip*

I don't want to quote your whole post, but those same ideas ran through my head as soon as I read this. Seems like a bad idea...liability, maintenance....*shudder*

[wingman]

Well, if you DO establish a cache, I hope I'm not expected to pay for it, directly or indirectly. Because there's no way I'm going to plan my dives based on the assumption that someone else did/didn't set up the cylinder properly. And given that I think it's a bad idea, I'd hate to be taxed somewhere for something I don't want.

I pay enough educating my neighbors' kids as it is.

Oh, good grief andrew...and you, for sure, i would have thought understood the concept of a positive externality...oh well. Of course you probably do enjoy a good free ride along with everone else, eh?

With regard to the rest of the comments i am reminded of a pretty famous speech in which it is said:

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Actually i like the idea of a gas cache and i like goldline/line (i do think there is way too much of it though) in the cave as well...now there's a public good no one seems to complain about much. Bill

[amphipod06]

Maybe a poll would be a better venue if you are trying to get an idea as to how many divers think it's a good or bad idea.

I believe that most, if not all, the practical reasons as well a the legal reasons for NOT having bottles all over the cave have been already delivered thoughout the thread.

I don't think it's a good idea for all the reasons already posted.

Dive safe,

Celia

[SLIM]

Not a problem Andrew, just remember the 6P's is all you need to know, LOL

Celia, I think that now that he has an idea of what some of the responses are and that he understands that he asked the question he was after wrong he relizes it.

From what he has stated later is that it was for him and his buddies on dives they are doing (must not be doing proper gas managment/planning) and not a safty to be used in the cave all the time for evreyone. I could be wrong.

That alone will be totaly differant then the way the original question came over as.

I still have to say that if htey do propper gas planning/managment then a safety is not needed unless they plan to push it. That then becomes unsafe diving practices.

SLIM