Bent at Ginnie?

[runawaylobster]

Oh no!!!! Now Ginnie is goung to be asking for a Deco Procedures card if dives include planned decompression.

Leslie, the known causes and risk factors for DCS should be taught to all divers in their OW class. I do not think it is dangerous to tell a new diver to ascend slowly so his/her body can decompress on the way up. I think all OW classes should require a maximum ascent rate of 30-40 fpm with a 3-5 min stop at 10-20 feet.

safe diving

Mark

No not at all.. and these things should be taught, we would be remiss if we didn't... BUT: full cave implies that a diver will be passing the NDLs and therefore additional specific training should be required. It's in there for sure but not as a primary focus and it really is a huge part of technical training.

By the way did you hear that Ginnie might start requiring the "Left Handed Scooter Pilot with Helitrox card??"

Anyhow I think I have made my point .

LL

[fixxervi6]

It would be highly dangerous to teach decompression in a non decompression class don't you think? There's no requirement for this in many (not all ) of the pathways to full cave.

I think it would be highly dangerious to not teach the concepts of on gassing / off gassing in any scuba class.

I do not think teaching deco diving in a non deco diving class would be dangerous, as, as soon as you start teaching decompression it becomes a decompression class.

I mean really people, to teach the masses basic decompression diving its not rocket science, they don't need to know calculus and to memorize builmann compartment times to be able to plan gas and maintain bouancy until their computer/tables clear while being taught risks and what if's, there is no voodoo.

What I would find very disturbing is if someone made it all the way to full cave but somehow missed being taught what contributes to DCS and how to minimize it.

You don't have to be a super star to perform deco, plan gas, hold bouancy until manditory stops clear, pad as neciscarry viola.

Yea people need to take the classes, no not taking the classes means your going to upset the cave gods and they will bend you as punishment.

every dive is a deco dive, if you make it though OW wihtout having at least a concept of the idea of decompression then you seriously need to get your money back, ongas/offgas is scuba 101

[fixxervi6]

No not at all.. and these things should be taught, we would be remiss if we didn't... BUT: full cave implies that a diver will be passing the NDLs and therefore additional specific training should be required. It's in there for sure but not as a primary focus and it really is a huge part of technical training.

By the way did you hear that Ginnie might start requiring the "Left Handed Scooter Pilot with Helitrox card??"

Anyhow I think I have made my point .

LL

I would have no problem having decompression procedures as a requirement before full cave, I'm sure others may because there is a TON of cave diving out there that you can do and stay will within NDL, mexico anyone?

[stairman]

Ive swam out to my deco bottle at 20, numerous times without other stops and have never been bent. Knock on wood, and as Im getting older and hopefully wiser am employing more stops on my trip out. But that kinda shoots holes in the profile of the cave therory I would think. The exersion of entry probably plays a part and Id be willing to bet most were on repetitive dives. Hopefully some will learn from this thread , thanks for bringing it to everyones attention.

[Burke]

No not at all.. and these things should be taught, we would be remiss if we didn't... BUT: full cave implies that a diver will be passing the NDLs and therefore additional specific training should be required. It's in there for sure but not as a primary focus and it really is a huge part of technical training.

By the way did you hear that Ginnie might start requiring the "Left Handed Scooter Pilot with Helitrox card??"

Anyhow I think I have made my point .

LL

I agree with leslie... I continue to be surprised at the attitude many cave divers have about decompression. I've heard things like "that's something you should be able to learn on your own", "read a book", etc. What's the difference between that and learning to dive on the Internet. Not much. I really don't get the difference in attitudes. If someone suggested that an ocean diver learn to deco dive on his own, they would be met with great hostility.

[Jay]

I think it would be highly dangerious to not teach the concepts of on gassing / off gassing in any scuba class.

What I would find very disturbing is if someone made it all the way to full cave but somehow missed being taught what contributes to DCS and how to minimize it.

every dive is a deco dive, if you make it though OW wihtout having at least a concept of the idea of decompression then you seriously need to get your money back, ongas/offgas is scuba 101

I gutted out some of the reply.
I agree. As a famous cave diving personality was fond of saying.

'You were taught everything you need to know about diving in PADI 101"

I believe he used the word 'learned', but that is obviously not the case. OW class content covers 99% of the risks and preventive measures for DCS. It covers the risks of bounce dives, repetitive dives and fast ascents. It covers safety stops.
But you would never know that watching most OW divers.

Some people keep preaching hydration like it is something new. If you did not leave your OW class knowing the benefits of hydration and the risks of dehydrating then go get your bowling shirt and shoes out of the closet and get your bowling ball polished. Either you were were too lazy or ignorant to read the content for your class and/or your instructor ripped you off.

Other then the actual process of conducting the decompression dive, your OW course content covered everything you needed to know to do rudimentary decompression or to avoid DCS.

A lot of divers finish their full cave course with no other training besides OW.
The percentage is lower now as tech training is 'cool' and more readily available.
Cave Instructors have always had to conduct adhoc decompression lessons, especially when air was plentiful and nitrox was scarce. The quantity and duration of dives in a full cave class on air necessitated it.

[Marc Bryan]

I gutted out some of the reply.
I agree. As a famous cave diving personality was fond of saying.

'You were taught everything you need to know about diving in PADI 101"

I believe he used the word 'learned', but that is obviously not the case. OW class content covers 99% of the risks and preventive measures for DCS. It covers the risks of bounce dives, repetitive dives and fast ascents. It covers safety stops.
But you would never know that watching most OW divers.

Some people keep preaching hydration like it is something new. If you did not leave your OW class knowing the benefits of hydration and the risks of dehydrating then go get your bowling shirt and shoes out of the closet and get your bowling ball polished. Either you were were too lazy or ignorant to read the content for your class and/or your instructor ripped you off.

Other then the actual process of conducting the decompression dive, your OW course content covered everything you needed to know to do rudimentary decompression or to avoid DCS.

A lot of divers finish their full cave course with no other training besides OW.
The percentage is lower now as tech training is 'cool' and more readily available.
Cave Instructors have always had to conduct adhoc decompression lessons, especially when air was plentiful and nitrox was scarce. The quantity and duration of dives in a full cave class on air necessitated it.

Excellent points. Nitrox has helped considerably in lowering the deco required in Full Cave classes. Most students have an increased SAC during class, so the combo of less bottom time, nitrox, and computers/ratio deco (so they do not have to use a square profile, tables based NDL), keep the required deco very small.

I noticed that in the tech/cave training poll, 90% of respondents have taken at least deco procedures or higher level of classes.