Bent at Ginnie?

[Jay]

Back on track a little bit. And this is not meant to be condescending, just food for thought for divers newer to high flow caves.

I taught OW for years and one of the hardest things I had to teach people was to slow their ascents. I insisted OW divers learn what 30 feet a minute meant. AOW and specialty classes had to do 20 feet a minute. (for those who have not heard this before - hand over hand up a line, counting off a second for each move, the average hand being about 4 inches will get you very close to 20 fpm) Nothing drove me more crazy then signalling a group of students to surface and then hearing a bunch of power inflators activated. It was not pleasant for them at the surface.
Ascent rates apply to all caves, but Ginnie and LR in particular as they are dived more often. Too many people are in a rush to get out or to get to their
10' stop. Or just like the express elevator to the top thing.
Exiting should be one long deco process. Don't let the flow dictate your ascent rate if at all possible. If you do get blown up 20-30 feet, make sure you stop as soon as possible to get your ascent rate back to something reasonable for your depth.

As mentioned, there are plenty of spots in Devil's to hang. Even after the corkscrew at LR there is a nice stretch where you can chill out before the last wild ride out.
I believe more cave divers are getting technical training these days and they will tend to be more conscious of ascent rates, but there are far too many folks who aren't. It is probably the one basic tenet of divng that is abused more then any other.

[LiteHedded]

i'd agree with everyone that there's no need to bring gatorade or any of that nonsense.
i drink the spring water.
I've noticed that if I wear thick enough undergarments to be comfortable on deco on a 3hr-ish dive I sweat a ton in the beginning portion of the dive. I can start out plenty hydrated and end up extremely thirsty. seems to me hydration and fitness are key in this cave and maybe a short pause at 70 on exit is as well. I don't go through the keyhole anymore on exit.

[sskasser]

i'd agree with everyone that there's no need to bring gatorade or any of that nonsense.
i drink the spring water.
I've noticed that if I wear thick enough undergarments to be comfortable on deco on a 3hr-ish dive I sweat a ton in the beginning portion of the dive. I can start out plenty hydrated and end up extremely thirsty. seems to me hydration and fitness are key in this cave and maybe a short pause at 70 on exit is as well. I don't go through the keyhole anymore on exit.

LOL at myself...I've gotten into the habit of taking a sip fairly often during my dives...RUDE awakening during my first salt water dive in a few months last weekend...NASSIE!!!!

[runawaylobster]

While the DCS occurrences span a wide range of diver backgrounds and levels of experience, maybe there is some vaue in considering the differences between decompression training for Full Cave and taking a decompression techniques class.

many full cave divers have not had the decompression techniques training.

Just adding a new variable to the pie!

LL

[fixxervi6]

I doubt very seriously that the teaching of a deco class to cave divers that are doing deco without a deco card will make much difference at all - insta cards do not make you safe.

(no I'm not saying people shouldn't take the classes and yes I am deco certified)

I just think people put too much weight on "did he have a card? no? well thats why he got killed/bent/hurt then"

Same principles apply to deco and non deco and its taught prior to deco classes, I was even taught most of it in my OW class, it was taught as "how to help keep your chances of getting bent down" same thing applies when doing deco and its been mentioned 10 million times

hydration, ascent rate, thermal protection, fatique, on and on, where is that dead horse icon?

I think a couple big things that are over looked is thermal proteciton and exersion, thats my opinion because if you look around the boards all you hear is "hydration hydration hydration"

not bashing or stiring, just giving my .02

[runawaylobster]

I doubt very seriously that the teaching of a deco class to cave divers that are doing deco without a deco card will make much difference at all - insta cards do not make you safe.

(no I'm not saying people shouldn't take the classes and yes I am deco certified)

I just think people put too much weight on "did he have a card? no? well thats why he got killed/bent/hurt then"

Same principles apply to deco and non deco and its taught prior to deco classes, I was even taught most of it in my OW class, it was taught as "how to help keep your chances of getting bent down" same thing applies when doing deco and its been mentioned 10 million times

hydration, ascent rate, thermal protection, fatique, on and on, where is that dead horse icon?

I think a couple big things that are over looked is thermal proteciton and exersion, thats my opinion because if you look around the boards all you hear is "hydration hydration hydration"

not bashing or stiring, just giving my .02

how annoying!

It's nothing to do with "having a card"..... i'm talking about real training like people do when they take classes

LL

[fixxervi6]

hmm, I'm going on the assumption that by the time you make full cave you should have the training / knowledge regarding minimizing your chances for the bends based on what we believe contributes to it, maybe a lot of people do not teach that in prior classes.

[runawaylobster]

hmm, I'm going on the assumption that by the time you make full cave you should have the training / knowledge regarding minimizing your chances for the bends based on what we believe contributes to it, maybe a lot of people do not teach that in prior classes.

It would be highly dangerous to teach decompression in a non decompression class don't you think? There's no requirement for this in many (not all ) of the pathways to full cave.

[runawaylobster]

you know I should qualify the last statement... ie: In many of the pathways it's not in the curriculum until you reach the full cave class and is not the primary focus of the full cave class.

[EEL]

Oh no!!!! Now Ginnie is goung to be asking for a Deco Procedures card if dives include planned decompression.

Leslie, the known causes and risk factors for DCS should be taught to all divers in their OW class. I do not think it is dangerous to tell a new diver to ascend slowly so his/her body can decompress on the way up. I think all OW classes should require a maximum ascent rate of 30-40 fpm with a 3-5 min stop at 10-20 feet.

safe diving

Mark