Full Cave & Tec Training

[JahJahwarrior]

My instructor covered it enough that I feel safe doing the decompression dives I am currently doing--with a single gas, in the cave environment. I don't know if I asked specifically about combining full with AN/DP, but I do remember him tell me to wait to take AN/DP until after full cave because then, the class could be taught in the cave, whereas with apprentice or lower, AN/DP would be taught in open water. Atleast, that's my best recollection of what I was told. I think AN/DP is a three day course, generally, correct? Requiring more dives than full cave, and it's a pricey course from what I've seen. I simply don't have the time nor the money, but I would like to take it. As it is, I do feel I have learned enough about decompression procedures for the level of diving I am doing currently. I do know that my instructor used resources other than the cave agency textbooks to teach me, and I wish that the standard procedure was to teach AN/DP with full cave classes....just like I wish more was taught about karst/aquifer processes

My instructor did a great job of covering the topics that would be important for the diving I am doing, and that was great. I know I could get an AN/DP card from some fly by night instructor for a low price, but I honestly would rather be mentored by a good instructor and not get a card, then have a card but no clue what I'm doing. As it is, I don't have a card, but my instructor has taught me some of the things I need to know, and when I have questions he is always willing to answer them, or show me the tools to think through the problem myself.

[StaceyS]

just like I wish more was taught about karst/aquifer processes

I couldn't agree with you more!

[JahJahwarrior]

I couldn't agree with you more!

After completing an independent study with a geology professor here at UCF, focused on the geologic structure of Florida and her aquifers, I'm contemplating attempting to write an article to explain aquifer and karst processes in layman's terms, to submit to one of the journals. We'll see if I ever get around to it...

[jj1987]

Do standards even allow for instructors to teach adv nitrox and deco in the cave before a student has a full cave cert? I've been told they don't, but I've also seen basic cave combined with AN/DP.

I took apprentice and full cave through 2 different instructors, and both required a deco bottle for each course. I've heard of some full cave courses where you couldn't use o2 unless you were already deco trained. I made sure to find an instructor who covered this.

FWIW the full cave exam requires you to answer a few deco questions, and explain the method you used to calculate the deco plan. From my understanding, you can use ratio deco, software, tables, or other methods, as long as you answer the question.

[battles2a5]

I think another interesting poll would be to see how many people are doing OW decompression dives using the basic deco instruction gained during cave training (current cave training, anyway). I know of more than a few people doing offshore dives w/ considerable amounts of deco, even w/ helium, without taking the classes and instead relying on what they learned in cave class. Granted, a lot of the skills crossover but there are considerable gaps in what you do in a cave vs. handling these dives in open water.

[skip]

After completing an independent study with a geology professor here at UCF, focused on the geologic structure of Florida and her aquifers, I'm contemplating attempting to write an article to explain aquifer and karst processes in layman's terms, to submit to one of the journals. We'll see if I ever get around to it...

that would be great! hope you find the time and get it done.

I'd also like to see the training agencies offer some classes, maybe even a "speciality" in karst processes, cave conservation, etc. like the speciality in dpv, a karst/conservation speciality could be needed for parts of ginnie, certain guided dives, etc.

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[aainslie]

that would be great! hope you find the time and get it done.

I'd also like to see the training agencies offer some classes, maybe even a "speciality" in karst processes, cave conservation, etc. like the speciality in dpv, a karst/conservation speciality could be needed for parts of ginnie, certain guided dives, etc.

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Actually, I don't really see a need for this. The key thing with sensitive cave is keeping your mitts off it. That takes technique, not knowledge about karst development. Experience based rules are probably better - neither, of course, is perfect.

[LiteHedded]

it was included in my class (iantd technical cave)
I also have a normoxic trimix cert

[skip]

Actually, I don't really see a need for this. The key thing with sensitive cave is keeping your mitts off it. That takes technique, not knowledge about karst development. Experience based rules are probably better - neither, of course, is perfect.

no real need for a night diving speciality, scooter speciality, wreck speciality, or u/w photographer either, but they exist. I'm not saying a speciality in karst development should be a requirement for cave cert, but offering it as a speciality seems reasonable.

I think we've seen enough damage to caves in the last few years to realize that telling people to "keep[ing] your mitts off it," and experience based rules, are not doing the job.

Education can lead to increased awareness and concern. Good divers are always learning, and a lot of it is about the environments we dive in. People become more aware and more sensitive to the environment when they are educated about that environment.

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[aainslie]

Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a class in cave conservation, geology etc. I just don't think it'd be a useful prerequisite to diving sensitive cave.