Bad gas rumors.

[bruceman]

I got bad gas the last time I dove Ginnie. I thought it was the Philly cheese steak from Ginnie Grill but I also drank a couple of Yoohoo’s that I bought from CEE.

Rich, You probably could makes some serious money selling Beano. You could say something like, “ Would you like some Beano with that fill”.

[Puttzer]

Its not difficult at all (if you follow simple directions). The good labs supply the bottle and charge roughly $125-150 a sample.

That's sounds too expensive for "frequent" testing.

Are there any cheap tests, the dealers can use more frequently in addition to standard testing, albeit not 100% accurate?

Rumors may cost good companies more than the cost of extra testing.

[Sludge]

I got bad gas the last time I dove Ginnie.

Mark Leonard, the former president of Dive Rite, was the most notorious supplier of bad gas in cave country. The NSS-CDS would hold socials twice a year, and Mark could be counted on to bring a great, big pot of his infamous chili. I remember comments such as, "You don't need to worry about argon when Mark brings the chili."

[barney00]

It would be prohibitively expensive to test the gas every time a tank was filled, and test results would be back long after the gas was breathed, in most cases.

Every day, Rich's gas is tested by divers using it, in a variety of situations underwater. I have hundreds of hours on his gas and I think anyone who has spent an hour hanging out talking with Rich (because unlike many people in cave country, he's nice) knows that East sees plenty of business.

Rich runs tests of his gas just as often as any gas station--ask him and he'll show you his latest testing results. Give him a call and I bet he'll dig up numbers from as far back as you want to wait on the phone for. Infact, I believe his last results are displayed where they are easy to read, unlike some places that have them hidden in the compressor room or in the back office. He ran an extra set of tests because some people were making serious claims that he had to address. Now that those claims have been addressed...well I would mention how damaging slander is to a business, but it's better to ask, why aren't the people who started the rumors, still attempting to spread them?

So, according to all those test results, we can infer that nothing has ever happened to the compressor to introduce contaminated gas in that time period. Ever. Just pure, clean gas? Anyone that knows the business in question knows that is not necessarily the case. There have been past posts in the forums over the years informing people the compressor was down for repairs. Look, a compressor is a machine. Machines fail. Even when you take good care of them, things break. And if you want potential explanations why random, isolated gas issues can occur, please read up on the thread over on TDS. Some very good technical information that can explain how compromised filters can allow slugs of bad gas through the system has been posted over there.

Still think its all rumors? Why don't you ask Rich straight-up if he was informed that a trusted friend got foul-gas recently, which likely convinced him that it was not all rumors and BS? I know the answer to that question, but I don't think that will satisfy many of you so I encourage you to ask him yourself. Rich is an honest stand-up guy, so I am positive he will tell you what's what.

In the past few years, several divers have died due to bad gas around the world. Including cave divers. That's documented and proven fact. Information has been posted. Hopefully some will start double-checking their gas - in the unlikely, rare chance you get bad gas. It could potentially save you from having a very bad day.

[Puttzer]

Probably we should all know this but here goes anyway:
what is the most common and /or dangerous contamination in our diving gases?

Which lead to the next question: can any of these be checked by divers themselves after their tanks are filled?

[JahJahwarrior]

So, according to all those test results, we can infer that nothing has ever happened to the compressor to introduce contaminated gas in that time period. Ever. Just pure, clean gas? Anyone that knows the business in question knows that is not necessarily the case.

Still think its all rumors? Why don't you ask Rich straight-up if he was informed that a trusted friend got foul-gas recently, which likely convinced him that it was not all rumors and BS?

In the past few years, several divers have died due to bad gas around the world. Including cave divers. That's documented and proven fact.

The fact that sometimes compressors break down does not give you the right to slander someone's business and good name. Furthermore, it does not mean that your modus operandi should be to spread rumors in an attempt to get the word out. What should be done is a quick call to the man in charge of the compressor, and it is my understanding that the man in charge had to call you. Not to mention, you never spread rumors when Wayne's compressor was down for a few days for repairs. Why not spread the hate?

As far as Rich being informed that a trusted friend "got foul gas RECENTLY"... I know Rich gives out receipts. I keep all mine (hidden, so the girlfriend doesn't see how much I spend on breathing gas). Can you show us the date on the receipt of the gas in question?

I'm not denying that people die due to bad gas. I am questioning your methods of operation, which do not lend themselves to quick resolution of problems.

[Sludge]

Okay, the horse is dead enough. I'm closing this pending a decision by the moderators.

It may be unlocked soon, it may not. It's up to the other mods.

[barney00]

The mods won't even give me the option to respond prior to closing the thread?

The fact that sometimes compressors break down does not give you the right to slander someone's business and good name. Furthermore, it does not mean that your modus operandi should be to spread rumors in an attempt to get the word out. What should be done is a quick call to the man in charge of the compressor, and it is my understanding that the man in charge had to call you. Not to mention, you never spread rumors when Wayne's compressor was down for a few days for repairs. Why not spread the hate?

As far as Rich being informed that a trusted friend "got foul gas RECENTLY"... I know Rich gives out receipts. I keep all mine (hidden, so the girlfriend doesn't see how much I spend on breathing gas). Can you show us the date on the receipt of the gas in question?

I'm not denying that people die due to bad gas. I am questioning your methods of operation, which do not lend themselves to quick resolution of problems.

1. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Prove what I have said is untruthful.

2. I did not mention any names when I initially posted on another forum. I did not initially post on this forum for reasons that have become abundantly clear.

3. I did not go to the person directly, as the most recent cases did not involve me, but friends. Friends that chose not to post themselves. I wish they did contact the shop directly, and at least one ultimately did. However, when I was personally involved I immediately contacted the shop in question. I personally paid money to have the gas tested. And I got documented results identfying an issue (see #1 above).

4. I was not aware of other shops having issues lately. IF it was due to potential serious malfunction and there was a potential for delivering bad gas, the question should be why didn't anyone else mention it (including the owner)? However, when there have been significant documented issues in other shops, I have publicly informed others in an attempt to avoid diver injuries. That also was documented on another forum (see #1 above). I caught a rash of crap for that too. So I have not gone after one particular shop, contrary to your statement. And its not based on hate either, but people can't seem to understand that.

5. As I mentioned, ask Rich about the receipts about the recent incident if you want verification. I can't answer that one as it did not directly involve me.

Look, there is no easy way to bring this issue up. If you do it quietly and privately with the shop, in some cases it will be ignored or kept quiet. This does little to prevent potential issues from customers getting gas around the same time frame that may also be bad. I also know there are others on here who have e-mailed or PMed me, telling me they have personally brought a real issue up to a fill station and received nothing but stubborn, angry denials and finger-pointing. There is even a recent thread on Scubaboard about someone bringing bad gas to a shop's attention out west, with similar results:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bas...7-bad-air.html
The second post is kind of interesting too...
Then I guess you can always ignore it and keep quiet (like many around here do), but IMHO that is irresponsible.

I know I have pissed off a lot of people bringing this crazy, apparently fictitious issue up. But sometimes doing the responsible thing is hard. I would rather have some people alive and pissed off at me, than some people dead and (posthumously) my good 'ole buddy. I guess some people around here are just more liberal than I in that regard.

Mike

[Sludge]

Okay, Michael responded, now it's closed.