Bad gas rumors.

[Rich]

Just to let everyone know, we just received our preliminary gas results back and the gas is absolutely fine!

However, we paid for a little bit more in depth testing than what is required this time, those results should be in either today or tomorrow and I'll post more then......

Safe diving,

Rich

[Sludge]

And the $64,000 Question is............... Was the gas that was analyzed from your compressor or from your banks?

[DonW]

Everytime I see a "bad gas" post I always wonder how it seems that only one or two people are affected. All of the major shops, including the one where I work part time, have large bank systems. When someone hooks their tank(s) to such a system how in the heck is it reasonably possible for that specific set of tanks to be the only ones to be filled with bad gas? It seems like many divers would get various degrees of "bad gas" depending on the contamination level in the banks and the amount of fill they put into their tanks. Also, it would seem to me that the situation, if caused by a bad compressor, should get continually worse since mechanical issues rarely repair themselves. Granted, if a bad filter is the cause then once changed the situation would improve but the "bad gas" would still be there just at a diluted rate as "good gas" was added. If you fill directly off a compressor like I do at home then I could understand. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but it seems that these cases rarely end up with solid documentation proving the allegations and generally only happen to one or two divers. I know folks try and be careful about naming shops in these posts but blame sure ends up getting placed sometimes even if it isn't deserved. I don't need to write a book here--if someone can give me a reasonable explanation to the bank/one bad tank question then PM me.

Rich,

I actually posted something!

Regards,

Don

[Rich]

And the $64,000 Question is............... Was the gas that was analyzed from your compressor or from your banks?

Russell, I took it directly from our nitrox banks last Thursday, as witnessed by Jim Lockwood and as stated on the gas analysis. Hope this helps....

Safe diving,

Rich

[Sam2000001]

Hey Rich, do ya think we will be able to get fills from ya again on Saturday?

[OFG-1]

Russell, I took it directly from our nitrox banks last Thursday, as witnessed by Jim Lockwood and as stated on the gas analysis. Hope this helps....

Safe diving,

Rich

Jim Lockwood as a witness? Damn, I didn't think you were in that much trouble.

[rjack]

Everytime I see a "bad gas" post I always wonder how it seems that only one or two people are affected. All of the major shops, including the one where I work part time, have large bank systems. When someone hooks their tank(s) to such a system how in the heck is it reasonably possible for that specific set of tanks to be the only ones to be filled with bad gas? It seems like many divers would get various degrees of "bad gas" depending on the contamination level in the banks and the amount of fill they put into their tanks. Also, it would seem to me that the situation, if caused by a bad compressor, should get continually worse since mechanical issues rarely repair themselves. Granted, if a bad filter is the cause then once changed the situation would improve but the "bad gas" would still be there just at a diluted rate as "good gas" was added. If you fill directly off a compressor like I do at home then I could understand. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but it seems that these cases rarely end up with solid documentation proving the allegations and generally only happen to one or two divers. I know folks try and be careful about naming shops in these posts but blame sure ends up getting placed sometimes even if it isn't deserved. I don't need to write a book here--if someone can give me a reasonable explanation to the bank/one bad tank question then PM me.

Rich,

I actually posted something!

Regards,

Don

Depending on the contaminant it might only be generated when the compressor (or oil) is hot, this might happen under ordinary weather or take exceptionally hot days. or maybe only at higher pressures. Or get by only near the end of filter life which is inconsistently measured. Some contaminants might only be entrained when the neighboring loading truck arrives etc. etc.

If anything, compressors are not "steady state".

[aainslie]

Depending on the contaminant it might only be generated when the compressor (or oil) is hot, this might happen under ordinary weather or take exceptionally hot days. or maybe only at higher pressures. Or get by only near the end of filter life which is inconsistently measured. Some contaminants might only be entrained when the neighboring loading truck arrives etc. etc.

If anything, compressors are not "steady state".

Don's point is that there should be dilution from the banks.

Unfortunately this isn't necessarily true. If there are pigtails on the tops of the clinders, then the gas will migrate straight to the point of lowest pressure, i.e. the whip. There'll be mild dilution from the gas from the banks, but only mild.

So, I suspect that a surprisingly large percentage of the gas being pumped right then will appear immediately at the whip.

Please note - I'm making a generic statement here, this is in no way a commentary on the current situation.

[cavediver27]

Everytime I see a "bad gas" post I always wonder how it seems that only one or two people are affected. All of the major shops, including the one where I work part time, have large bank systems. When someone hooks their tank(s) to such a system how in the heck is it reasonably possible for that specific set of tanks to be the only ones to be filled with bad gas? It seems like many divers would get various degrees of "bad gas" depending on the contamination level in the banks and the amount of fill they put into their tanks. Also, it would seem to me that the situation, if caused by a bad compressor, should get continually worse since mechanical issues rarely repair themselves. Granted, if a bad filter is the cause then once changed the situation would improve but the "bad gas" would still be there just at a diluted rate as "good gas" was added. If you fill directly off a compressor like I do at home then I could understand. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but it seems that these cases rarely end up with solid documentation proving the allegations and generally only happen to one or two divers. I know folks try and be careful about naming shops in these posts but blame sure ends up getting placed sometimes even if it isn't deserved. I don't need to write a book here--if someone can give me a reasonable explanation to the bank/one bad tank question then PM me.

Rich,

I actually posted something!

Regards,

Don

You make some good points and here is something else to think about. Why is it that the regular and long-time customers aren't typically the ones with the issues??? The odds should favor the regular customers being the ones getting the "bad gas" but that doesn't usually seem to be the case.

The way I see it, dive shops have ZERO control over one huge variable and that variable is; What is the quality and mixture of the gas already in the cylinders that are brought in to be topped off? That is potentially a big part of the problem and may explain why every diver getting their gas at the same place at the same time doesn't get the same "bad gas". Many times those cylinders are from divers coming here from somewhere far from cave country. Those cylinders could have been sitting for many months unused with the balance of the gas in them from their last dive and were filled by some other shop which may or may not supply safe gas. In other cases, someone has "O2 cleaned" the cylinders and left some residue in them that is now blamed on the filling shop's gas. I's not too much of a stretch to think that there have been cylinders left sitting around in a garage and some "contaminate" mysteriously gets on / in the valve and then when it is filled the "contaminate" is now in the cylinder and is part of the breathing gas.

There are many variables to be considered when discussing "bad gas" before the finger pointing starts.

[barney00]

You make some good points and here is something else to think about. Why is it that the regular and long-time customers aren't typically the ones with the issues??? The odds should favor the regular customers being the ones getting the "bad gas" but that doesn't usually seem to be the case.

That's a bad assumption. Most of the incidents I am aware of occurred to individuals from Florida who are/were regular customers. I know, I know, that's just more rumors and BS, but whatever.