A start for a Underwater Cave Conservation Booklet

[skip]

no, no endangered species (although I am working on the "in need of management" angle). No nearby water supply river rules or laws... and no laws about what you can or can not do with waterfilled sinks (filling them in is the standard practice for developers). but maybe it's time to launch an effort to get state legislation on that one....no building within 50 feet of a water filled sink....and no filling in before building either. instead of trying to stop this one hole from being filled in, it might be better to quietly work on state reps without them really paying much attention to the implications for developers...how building too near a sink is a bad thing for home buyers who then may have the ground fall out from under them.

that could be interesting. i do have a lawyer friend who works for environmental groups, but he charges a hefty fee and would not do anything pro bono - "friend" was a bit strong of a word! he might clue me in to current legislation, stuff he's been trying to get passed, and thus clues to how to go about it.

thanks for the ideas.

-skip

[FW]

Actually Skip, a nice clean subdivision might be better for that poor cave, than the dairy farm. That is, if they don't try to fill it in. There are a couple of solutions there as well. You could offer to buy the lot that the spring sits on, or convince them it would be a nice "green space" that would help them sell the rest of the lots. The bottom line is education. Educating the landowners works just as well as trying to educate the government. In the long run, educating the government would best for the whole state. A good letter writing campaign to the state couldn't hurt. Not just about Cow Crap Sink, but all groundwater issues.

[Arnold Mesiser]

If the subdivision is going to have wells for the houses then maybe the aquifer as a water supply might make them see the light-mind you the name "cow crap cave " might be counter productive but illustrate well one method of contamination.

If they can preserve the natural sink area and clean the infeeders=they preserve the water supply.

Is there no provision in the building code in that area to prevent building on unstable land? That is about the only protection for karst that we have here other than rare species.

I loved the video you shared of the system,beautiful to see!


good luck

BTW I can send reference to a report about the deaths in Walkerton ,Ontario caused by e coli getting into the aquifer/water supply due to karst if you think it might help.

ANY precedence set in an area can help ALL our karst areas have some ammunition to fight karst destruction.

[Cindy]

Sent to me by one of the groups I visit.
Dear Working Group Members,



Senate Bill 274 sponsored by Senator Constantine addresses several issues of concern associated with damage that has been documented at many the Florida’s 700 springs.



The bill would enact new regulations that would

• Upgrade septic systems

• Improve stormwater management

• Reduce fertilizer pollution



You can view the bill at: http://www.flsenate.gov/session/inde...09&billnum=274



The Senate Community Affairs Committee is scheduled to vote on SB-274 on Monday April 6 at 9 am.

If you wish to have these elected officials know of your wishes associated with SB-274, you may contact the committee members. Here’s a link to the committee’s webpage with the member’s contact information.

http://www.flsenate.gov/cgi-bin/View...ees/senate/CA/



For information on other proposed bills that may have impacts springs, go to http://sfspringswg.blogspot.com/sear...el/Legislation



Ondine



Ondine Wells

Facilitator, Santa Fe Springs Working Group



Communications Specialist

Pandion Systems, Inc.

102 NE 10th Avenue, 1st Floor

Gainesville, FL 32601



Phone: 352.372.4747 x3002

Fax: 352.372.4714

Email: [email protected]

Web: www.pandionsystems.com



The purpose of the Santa Fe Springs Basin Working Group (SFSWG) is to create a forum in which professionals, government agencies, and the public can learn about and discuss issues and activities that can affect the quality and quantity of water in Poe, Ginnie, Hornsby and Gilchrist Blue Springs and their contributing areas in Alachua, Gilchrist and Columbia Counties. For more information, please see http://santaferiversprings.com/

[Cindy]

no, no endangered species (although I am working on the "in need of management" angle). No nearby water supply river rules or laws... and no laws about what you can or can not do with waterfilled sinks (filling them in is the standard practice for developers). but maybe it's time to launch an effort to get state legislation on that one....no building within 50 feet of a water filled sink....and no filling in before building either. instead of trying to stop this one hole from being filled in, it might be better to quietly work on state reps without them really paying much attention to the implications for developers...how building too near a sink is a bad thing for home buyers who then may have the ground fall out from under them.

that could be interesting. i do have a lawyer friend who works for environmental groups, but he charges a hefty fee and would not do anything pro bono - "friend" was a bit strong of a word! he might clue me in to current legislation, stuff he's been trying to get passed, and thus clues to how to go about it.

thanks for the ideas.

-skip

Skip, another thought. Is the sale a done deal? In Florida there has to be a hearing prior to selling any state lands. They might now know about the cave at that level. You could present something to them. Include maps and photos. They love that stuff. Cindy

[Walter Pickel]

Senate Bill 274 sponsored by Senator Constantine addresses several issues of concern associated with damage that has been documented at many the Florida’s 700 springs.

All...

There are two springs bills in the Senate this year. Senate Bill 274 (Sen. Constantine’s bill) is the stronger of the two, this is the one we need to have passed. SB 274 is up for vote at 9AM on Monday, April 6. If you are going to do something, do it tonight. Developer lobbyists are desperately trying to kill this bill!

Here is who you need to contact (Senate Community Affairs Committee):

Sen. Thad Altman Melbourne (850) 487-5053 [email protected]
Sen. Michael Bennett (Chair) Bradenton (850) 487-5078 [email protected]
Sen. Ted Deutch Delray Beach (850) 487-5091 [email protected]
Sen. Rudy Garcia Hialeah (850) 487-5106 [email protected]
Sen. Andy Gardiner Orlando (850) 487-5047 [email protected]
Sen. Anthony C. Hill Jacksonville (850) 487-5024 [email protected]
Sen. Jeremy Ring Margate (850) 487-5094 [email protected]
Sen. Gary Siplin (Vice-Chair) Orlando (850) 487-5190 [email protected]
Sen. Ronda Storms Brandon (850) 487-5072 [email protected]
Sen. Stephen R. Wise Jacksonville (850) 487-5027 [email protected]

Also, this is a very good flyer put out by Audubon Florida.

[skip]

Lots of good ideas here to keep me busy investigating possibilities!

Cindy, I don't know if they will have a public hearing or not. The land is for sale, at least it has been decided to sell it, and everyone knows about it. I don't know if they had a hearing or found a buyer. Partly it's my own lack of awareness - where do you find out these things? So far, the land is still under university control (a dairy farm), until money is available to move the cows. But they could have sold it already with the understanding that owners can't take over until cows are moved. However, I don't think so.

The chair of the ag dept and director of experimental farms have been talking to me quite a bit the last month or so and as far as they know, it's not been sold or turned over to the state for selling. I will for sure attend and address any meetings or hearings concerning the property if I know when and where and take video's/pictures, etc.

I still like the idea of springs protection act here in Tennessee, so am also checking into the links you posted and have found some other things that florida has been doing and some that tennessee has on paper too.

I gave a talk to the ag dept last week about the sink on the dairy farm (about 30 students and faculty attended), with video and powerpoint, and they were all amazed that the little cow drinking hole had so much going on underground. So you are right - most people have no clue and get real interested when you show them!

But man is it a time-consuming process....educating the public is a full time job!

-skip

[rjack]

I definitely agree that outright destruction (filling, collapse, etc) are really huge problems.

Fortunately, there are plenty of resources about water quality degradation of aquifers in karst. They do need to be translated into persuasive english tho. I am wondering if a more formal "Kleen Karst" (my copyright lol) type of brochure might be helpful. Something that all the training/conservation agencies could get behind and then distribute to both the public, landowners and lawmakers when things like this TN dairy farm sale come up.

A one page brochure discussing all the ways karst aquifers are valuable and all the ways they can be degraded (with pictures) would be a great addition to our collective educational efforts.

Do we have any public outreach / graphic design people here?

[skip]

Cindy Butler gave me this idea... Let's start to make an underwater cave conservation booklet by posting your ideas, comments here.

For example, cave divers can help with conservation by:
- removing trash from caves
- not touching or damaging formations in caves
- perform the best buoyancy possible while diving

I think maybe this thread was highjacked. The CDS and the NACD both have conservation brochures - is another one needed? or is the idea to create something more than a brochure (a booklet)?

Given the three items above - what needs to be added to them in terms of details? what needs to be added as more items?

Maybe

- removing trash from the parking areas, boardwalks, and paths?
- not collecting rock or fossil samples?
- a sign-in book (and sign-out)? the book at each dive site, to include space for comments like (i lost it and made a handprint, or i did a pull and glide and broke a chunk, my tank valves hit the ceiling three times).
- cleaning gear of resident flora before leaving the site? or before going to another site?

-skip

[skip]

Looks like me and rjack were putting this thread back on track at the same time!

-skip