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I was just down at vortex doing some open water doubels dives to get used to them and looked around into the cavern and a little bit in the cave. so my question is this if you are wonting to keep open water divers from going into the cave then why put an airbell and chritmas lights all the way to about 300 feet into the cave??? And what the story with the gate down there?? Just curious and wonted to know when they did all this and why?
If you are full cave, you can get the key for the gate. I have never been back there, but have done alot of cavern dives at Vortex.
From what I have heard, it is mostly side mount and no mount back there.
There is going back mount beyond the grate, not sure how many feet but its tight, your belly will be pushing through sand in spots (well, if your as round as I am it will be) and it gets deep in parts, I hit 140, when I got toward the back there was like an open room with a split in the line, I believe it was a 'T' I can't remember now its been a while, from there I wouldn't go any further in back mount.
http://www.floridacaves.com/vortexcave.JPG
I am not sure where the gate is on this map, but I think it is right after the first room. notice the ceiling heights.
there is a better map out there, but I dont know where it is though.
You are correct the gate is passed the first room i think its 300 ft back ito the cave the air bell is in the firrst room with christmas lights. When did they put the gate up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
I have no idea. I first dove there in 2002, and it was there then.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_glenn06
anyone else know?:smt102
That project was already underway in the late '70s.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_glenn06
there is nice going cave past the gate. two places i recall required digging out some sand to crawl under (backmount), one within sight of the gate and another not too far past that one. And it goes and goes, getting down to 165 feet before it pinches off. I don't recall any T's anywhere, but several places it gets tight enough I thought sidemount would be better. I am a small guy, so maybe some would need sidemount.
-skip
Eduardo is constantly seeing new cave open up and it is changing over time. It can be done backmount but is a bit tight in a few spots. Where it drops below 150' there is a T. Right goes deeper and left pinches down pretty quick. It is actually a pretty dive but best in sidemount. I dived it last Friday and as usual it was a good dive.
Were you there that whole weekend i might have ran into you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spd 135
I was only there Friday. I had a boat behind my truck. I went to Morrison after that and other locations nearby on Saturday and then to Marianna on Sunday.
Ah i got yea we must have just passed you then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spd 135
From what I understand the lights and airbell are there because the previous owners knew it was going to be pointless to try to keep OW divers out of there so they might as well make it easier for them to get out by lighting the way. I have mixed feelings on this.
Its actually kinda pretty behind the gate. *shrugs*
Its back mountable to a point, you just won't see the end of the line.
While I'm not thrilled for the reason that the lights are in there, I went back there, covered my light and just hovered for at least 10 minutes, kind of pretty.Quote:
Originally Posted by RN
Although I don't go any longer, but when I did I would not only leave the gate open once inboard of the gate but I would also take the lock with me not knowing who else might have a key and potentially lock me in. That gate is a perfect place for the use of a come-along to remove that rusted piece of krap.
Did the exact same thing, very erie with the green glow.Quote:
Originally Posted by fixxervi6
Closing the gate, but taking the lock with you, was the recomended procedure in the site briefing they gave me a couple weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawCaver
I haven't heard of anyone getting locked in. However, imagine if you take the lock with you, jump off the main line, and MISS another team entering who doesn't have a key "because it's already checked out." You then put the lock back on as you leave.
I like Vince's idea.
Reserving the right to object,Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
I dont know whether they allow more than one team in at a time or not, but , It just isnt reasonable to think that a team could be exiting without knowing that someone else is in the system.
As far as a gate. Like most of us, I'm for minimal impact on any of the systems we dive in. However, With as much OW training that occurs at this site, I think the gate is a necessary evil. In fact, I found a snorkel back close to the gate when I dove.
If the lock was not in my possession I would not venture out of site of the gate if it was open
I don't want to be locked in so when I dive I lock the gate open. I agree that you cannot miss another team in there, and if I was second I would run a reel, and / or place a marker. I have also been known to bring another lock when there were several keys and unlock the Vortex lock, take one end of the chain off, put my lock through it and then marry the two locks.
If an untrained person goes in and gets in a bad way I will bring them out when I am done. The grate, and gate (even open) is a solid sign that the area is restricted. On the other hand, if I somehow lose the key, with me in there, I am in a bad way. If others are irresponsible with their actions I will rescue or recover them, but I won't put myself in harms way because they "might" follow me in.
i agree 100% with having the gate since there is OW training there everyday and thats were most open water students go on there on after they are threw with there certification. Thats what i did i was certified at ginnie and after i got my card thats the first place i went. But as far as the key to the gate goes from im sure vortex only alows one team to cave dive at a time. And with leaving the gate open; thats a tuff one. But you still have the key on you at all times right?Quote:
Originally Posted by billybones519
I dummy lock it and take the key with me. The rope lights are a little irritating because I have to put forth more effort to keep track of my buddy's light..no big deal.
Have your buddy get a brighter light! I think the rope light is neat, its not very bright.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmufieldhockey8
lol I agree i like the lights its pretty cool. Thats got to be a hell of an extension cord though:smt081Quote:
Originally Posted by fixxervi6
I never thought I would see the day that a cave diver would think that a gate or grate was a good idea regardless of the number of divers who know better and disregard their training limitations and venture past daylight. People die mountaineering, skiing, white water rafting, skydiving and hiking into the Grand Canyon every year. Fortunatley, no one is bulldozing the mountains into the canyons or draining the rivers to PROTECT the ignorant........JUST YET. IMHO, it is not the cave that is dangerous beyond the gate, it is the diver that left the daylight zone that is.
Welcome to the world of being a business owner. You can have all kinds of theoretical arguments...but when you own a business like Vortex, you do everything you can as a business owner to avoid injuries and litigation. Own a business for one day where you have to deal with the public, and the gate will make perfect sense...at least from the owners point of view.
The world we live in now gives us the choice...a cave with a gate that the public can use...or an unspoiled cave with no gate...that you can only imagine is there, because the owner has closed the site to protect divers, and to protect himself against lawsuits
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawCaver
A FAR better option for the owner(s) would be to require all OW instructors to sign a statement saying that they warned all their students about the dangers of overhead, and recommended that they take a cavern course before venturing into the cavern (much less the cave).Quote:
Originally Posted by GLENFWB
:clapperQuote:
Originally Posted by OutlawCaver
As soon as our litigation process begins to include "personal responsibility", things will get better for cave diving.Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawCaver
Once again, IMHO, it is not their cave to gate or grate in the first place, just like the Ginnie grate. I would like to see an official land survey or deed that shows either site owning the springs. Can you show me a copy of Obama's US birth certifcate at the same time? At that time, I will retract my statements about their right to install a grate/gate and will accept Obama as the Commader In Chief.
heh, come to Texas, a land owner here actually has a cave located IN a navigatble waterway, he has local law enforcement confinced that even tho the water is navigaible by statue he OWNS the cave and anyone entering it is trespassing.
Howling here! :eleQuote:
Originally Posted by OutlawCaver
Better for the entire country. But there will be a $hit load of lawyers out of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegg