Discovering a New Sport Wet versus Dry

Everything tends toward entropy, and my beloved (and expensive) Poseidon dry suit was not exempt from the Second Law of Thermodynamics. After cutting off the pockets, I tossed the suit ceremoniously into the trash can and hauled it to the curb.

With the economic downturn, I had to turn to whatever rubber I had around the garage: I could not afford to cough up two grand for another Poseidon, DUI, Armani or Gucci Dry Suit.

I dug out my cracking, ten-year old 3 mm open water wet suit, swept out a Recluse spider, put on a hooded vest underneath it, added another hood, and sank down into the Devil's Ear like a rock. The goal was to swim the Roller Coaster circuit for a total dive time of one hour without shivering in status epilepticus by the time I returned to the tree trunk in the Ear.

Mission not only accomplished, but transcendental: It was like discovering a new sport! The freedom of movement, the easier hydrodynamics (trim and buoyancy compensation), and the intimacy with the water, were things I had not experienced for several years, since before going to a dry suit. Plus, the simplicity: elimination of a hose, no pee valve, no condom catheters, no rotting seals, no intake nor exhaust valves, no sticky zippers, nor bulky, smelly undergarments. No pomp and ceremony putting the damn thing on.

In the interests of full disclosure, if you are a big time cave diver, doing long dives with lengthy decompression obligations, this sermon is probably not for you. But, if you are a doofus cave diver like me, with ambitions limited to paddling around the cave closest to the exits for an hour or less of bottom time, you owe it to yourself to try the simple elegance of the wet suit solution. Try it, and let's hear back from you.

Post script: I will, however, miss going up to the counter at Ginnie Springs lodge to purchase a condom catheter, and the lady behind the counter asking me what size, and I answering "the Magnum XXXL, please."

FWIW: I have a friend and deep cave diver guide that only dives wet.

So as I did my 300' dive with him and did my 1 hour deco, I looked and him and thought "I thought I had to dive in a dry suit" "Everyone" told me you can't dive deep, dive cold or do deco in a wet suit. Well maybe, just maybe "everybody" is wrong.

Richard
Tallahassee

I'm another wetsuit fan! One of the many things I love about caving is that I do it in a wetsuit. My diving here in the great north woods and in the North Atlantic is almost all in a drysuit. When I'm in Florida cave diving, I leave the drysuit in Vermont and use a 7 mm wetsuit with a 5 mm core warmer over it. My run times in the caves seldom go over 100 minutes, but I have never been cold. As my cave dives get longer, I may start bringing the drysuit, but I hope not, for all the reasons that the OP enumerated.

Mike

You know, Rick, I read your post with a touch of nostalgia. Maybe I oughtta dig the old wetsuit out of the closet and give it a shot. Not at JB, of course, that four degrees is everything. How about the next time I go down to Ginnie? I could handle 72° water in my 3mm.

But then I snapped back to reality. When I made my first drysuit dive in November 2000 I said I'd never wear a wetsuit again. Then when I got my TLS-350 several months later I said I'd never, never, never wear a wetsuit again. The TLS is much, much easier to put on, and ten times more comfortable. I've never noticed a decrease in hydrodynamics. Just a better experience all around.

Still, I may dig out the wetsuit just to remind myself how good I have it.

I wear a two piece 7 mil and a 7mil hooded vest, and most of my dives are longer than an hour, with some being over two hours. I'm sick and tired of shivering my tail off during deco, and so glad that it's finally cool enough outside to hop in a drysuit! Now to relearn proper trim....ugh...

wimps I use a 5mil with a 7mil hood for my dives. My cf200 has stayed In the bag since I moved down here 4 years ago.

After over 100 dives in a TLS-350, I switched back to a wetsuit on the recommendation of probably that same guide mentioned above and I absolutely love it. I'm doing 90 minute dives and not getting cold, but I'm wearing a suit with 3 layers of 7mm. What can I say, after 10 years in Miami I've become a warm water wimp...

I may try the dry suit again this winter just for kicks. The only thing I really liked about the dry suit is, well being dry, when getting out of the water on cold days. In water, I much prefer the wetsuit.

And if the BC fails to float you, what's the plan for back up inflation? I once experimented with using a lift bag to stay off the cave floor at Peacock and it was no picnic. Not sure I could exit on remaining gas using a lift bag for inflation.

I am curious what plan wetsuit divers have for back up inflation, if you think it's really needed, or other thoughts about it, so let's hear it.

-skip

can't believe you could do that dive in a 3mil.
i would not have made it past the cornflakes in that thing

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Originally Posted by skip

And if the BC fails to float you, what's the plan for back up inflation? I once experimented with using a lift bag to stay off the cave floor at Peacock and it was no picnic. Not sure I could exit on remaining gas using a lift bag for inflation.

I am curious what plan wetsuit divers have for back up inflation, if you think it's really needed, or other thoughts about it, so let's hear it.

-skip

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I've tried the lift bag thing too, in OW, with similar results. It gave me a lot of respect for the people that used to cave dive using clorox bottles or jerrycans for buoyancy!

I use a Dive-Rite Dual Classic wing for redundant buoyancy when diving steel doubles in a wetsuit. It's the same size and shape as the single bladder Classic, so there's no extra bulk or drag as there would be with two sandwiched wings.

Some have expressed a concern that a slowly leaking LPI valve on the backup bladder might gradually add gas, resulting in unplanned positive buoyancy. To avoid this, (though I don't think it likely either way) I don't use a second LPI hose - I can either cross connect my one LPI hose to the backup bladder, or inflate it orally if needed. I've played with this in OW to make sure I can do it.

Mike

for those of us with less insulation a springs dive over 40mn and im done in a wetsuit.
Thanks god for my drysuit.

I'm with you guys. I got probably close to 200 dives in my DUI drysuit. I've dove the drysuit in Summer heat and cold Winter. Now, it leaks so often, I may as well get a wetsuit. For the price you pay to have the seals replaces every freaking year, you practically pay the price of a new wetsuit each time (OK, so I'm stretching it a little). My DUI is probably ready to be retired. I'm NOT putting down another $1,400 for a suit.

So, I've decided I'm going back to wetsuits. They are cheaper and more durable.

Wetsuit for me as well. I use a two-piece 7mm suit and am never even slightly cool in our spring water for up to a couple of hours. The only minor issue I sometimes have is that it is so bouyant that at shallow depths, especially when tanks are getting lower, is that I have to work a little to stay negative. There are a couple of shallow caves that I bring out a single piece 5mm wetsuit to avoid the floaty issue.

Wet Suits?? You guys are nuts. You really just like the feel of your own warm pee don't you?

ER , no comment for me on this thread (ROFL)

Jean

P.S. Hey , the good Lord gave us an internal wet-suit heater , why not use it? (SMILE)

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Wet Suits?? You guys are nuts. You really just like the feel of your own warm pee don't you?

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Yes.

Mike

I'm all about diving wet or semi-dry. I personally hate diving in a drysuit. I need to get a dual bladder wing though so I can maintain bouyancy if my primary bladder ever takes a dump on me....

Martin.

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Originally Posted by aw

I'm with you guys. I got probably close to 200 dives in my DUI drysuit. I've dove the drysuit in Summer heat and cold Winter. Now, it leaks so often, I may as well get a wetsuit. For the price you pay to have the seals replaces every freaking year, you practically pay the price of a new wetsuit each time (OK, so I'm stretching it a little). My DUI is probably ready to be retired. I'm NOT putting down another $1,400 for a suit.

So, I've decided I'm going back to wetsuits. They are cheaper and more durable.

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My off the shelf dui tls350 has over 300 dives on it and is still going. I have replaced all seals (neck and wrists) once so far. And replaced the zipper once. the wrist seals are about ready to be replaced (some say past time). I switched to the zip seals, and can now switch easily and not too expensively (and I can add the zip dry gloves for those long deep ocean dives in the winter, or those shallow quarry dives when the ice comes). I have not had to replace the seals every year.

I don't like the idea of spending another 1400 or even 1000, so I kept my eyes open and jumped on a tls350 used for $700.00. It's now my backup drysuit. A used tls at $700-1000 is not that much more than a good new wetsuit and worth way more in the extension of the dive locations and time of year. Just try to dive our tennessee caves in a wetsuit! It will be a short dive for sure.

-skip

- have never dove dry...... up to 6 hours in 68-69F tallahassee (was younger then)

been plenty cold, though

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Originally Posted by skip

Just try to dive our tennessee caves in a wetsuit! It will be a short dive for sure.

-skip

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Aw come on Skip, I personally saw you spend about 10 hours in a TN cave in a wetsuit.

I have spent more that 15 hours in a cave, wearing a wetsuit. It was even farther north than TN too (52 degrees) :-D

Sounds familiar - I used to "dry" cave in a wetsuit with coveralls over it. That's when I learned to wear panty hose (Tracy's are way too small - I had to buy my own) to prevent the near-fatal case of wet suit chafing that can result from 10 hours in a mud-saturated wetsuit!

Mike

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Originally Posted by FW

Aw come on Skip, I personally saw you spend about 10 hours in a TN cave in a wetsuit.

I have spent more that 15 hours in a cave, wearing a wetsuit. It was even farther north than TN too (52 degrees) :-D

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you had to remind me! brrrrrrr......

hey, now that you mentioned it, when do you want to go again?

-skip

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Originally Posted by skip

you had to remind me! brrrrrrr......

hey, now that you mentioned it, when do you want to go again?

-skip

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Looking at the weather report, how about this weekend? :roll:

Interesting read. I'm fairly new to this type of diving, only cavern certified at the moment. I have only ever dove a 3mil, besides a 7mil during cavern class. It was really a non-issue for ocean diving when talking about temp; South Florida ocean temps are very forgiving. But once I started primarily diving springs it was a whole different can of worms. I'm only like 175lbs so I get cold easily, 2nd dives for me are usually not as enjoyable because I do start getting cold fast. Not to mention that I am a native Floridian and I have no tolerance for cold water... I have been bit by the bug, I enjoy this type of diving and I know this is the type of diving I want to do and continue on with. I bought a drysuit a few weeks ago and can't wait to get in it.

On my last dive I went deep (270') in a wet suit and all of the deco was in 75-78 degree water. I started to shiver the last 5 minutes of the 50 minute deco. I wore a .5 mil skin a 2.5 mil hooded vest and a 7 mil Everflex Suit over all.

I think I could go back to wet for single dive days in 72 deg water, but I sometimes get cold even in my drysuit. My suit fits pretty close and I haven't tried my thicker undergarments because of some leaks. I was having the suit repaired during the above-referenced dive and I'm glad to have it back. I'm really looking forward to trying the thicker garments.

That last dive was the first dive in almost a year since going dry.

Mark

When I dove backmount I always dove in a Sea Elite 7mm semi dry. I love diving in a wetsuit. I feel more streamlined and I like the cooler feel of being wet during the dive. Its also nice to not have to worry about a pee valve, inflater hose, carrying around drysuit underwear and all the maintance that comes with the drysuit, oh and not to mention the horror of your pee valve not working and peeing on yourself during the dive and not finding it out until you unzip yourself.
I would still be diving a wetsuit on all dives except since i went to sidemount I found that the armadillo (which is what i dive) does not have enough lift to float me with just a set of 108s. add a 40cu for 02 and your in trouble. Also on deep dives 200+ where the bottom is much deeper I also contemplate the catastrophe of a wing failure and having to try and swim upwards from a deep depth. I think its fair to say that wetsuit diving in great in some situations and other situations is much better in a drysuit. I always look for an excuse to dive in a wetsuit and on trips to cave country I still bring my wetsuit and tuck it under my drysuit just incase.

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Originally Posted by Signal 20

the horror of your pee valve not working and peeing on yourself during the dive

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... as opposed to peeing on yourself in a wetsuit. I don't get it. Real men hold it. :D

When diving wet I hold it till I get to the end of the line and then let it loose. Then I try to stay in the warm spot for the trip back...

Martin.

i've blown the condom and pee'd myself and believe me weezel wear stinks to high heaven when pee'd in! But it's better than holding it. I can always take a shower and do the laundry. Getting human waste on your person is highly over-rated. No big deal. Par for the course. Do the crime, do the time. no reason to be uncomfortable, let er rip! Whether in a wetsuit or drysuit. of course it's always better when the pee valve works!

-skip

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Originally Posted by skip

i've blown the condom and pee'd myself!

-skip

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Sucks when the duct tape lets go !!:smt081

Working with dive shops and liveaboards in the Pacific NW, I had many opprotunities to dive a wide variety of dry suits. I have also owned quite a few as well.

So we know there are many types of dry suits, different materials, zipper styles, seals, enough so that different personalites will prefer different suits.

The same is true for wet suits. I now own a custom made five mil (Wet Wear in Hallendale,FL) suit that when combined with the matching hooded vest is warmer, more comfortable, and far more flexible than any two piece 7 mil suit that I ever dove. If deep dives and loss of bouancy due to compression are a concern, there is a nitrogen blown neoprene that is far more resistant to compression at depth.

I love it for all the reasons metioned earlier in the thread. Virtually everyone that I dive with smirks at it and recites the praises of their respective dry suits. However, it all boils down to one thing. I am comfortable diving it, I stay warm (enough) and there is less to worry about.

BTW, I also dive a dual classic wing to address redundant bouyancy.

Finally, when I go back to the PNW, rest assured I will be in a dry suit. Water temps in the 30 to 50 degree range are an entirely different matter for this diver, than the 70's in Northern FL.

I took Basic and Apprentice Cave from Mike O'Leary. I noticed he always dives wet. When I asked him to elaborate, he said "One less failure point". That's the flip side of the redundancy issue. I don't think there's a right or wrong, you can make cogent arguments for either position.

All that being said, pissing myself in my wetsuit is a nonevent - not so the drysuit!

My favorite dry suit is my 5 mil neoprene. (well it used to be 5 mil, after 8 years and 4 or 500 dives it may be a little less now) More comfortable then a wet suit and about the same drag (ie-significantly less then any bag suit). The wrist dump valve spoils you very quickly. The suit is actually less restrictive then any of my wet suits except the 2 mil shorty!