Manatee: 9/16/08

Dove Manatee for the first time yesterday. As we entered the park we where greeted by 4-5 small deer grazing on the road. Our first dive was done at Catfish, the plan was to find the enterance, follow mainline and turn on thirds. Since neither my buddy and I have been here before we headed in and looked for the entrance. After quickly realizing upon entering we where getting sucked in to Manatee, we corrected are path and got headed in to the right direction. We swam upstream towards Friedman and made it 200' from Friedman sink. I don't know what the normal flow is but I think it was up cause it felt like a screaming flow. When we got to Sue's you had to pull and pull to make it past the bend. When we turned the dive just rode the flow all the way out, but exited at Catfish to do some lite deco. The vis about 20-30', dark and a lot of particular in the water. I was disappointed with our first dive, it seemed that I didn't see to much of the cave moslty line unless it wrapped or touched the wall. As I shined my light left and right most time I did not see much more then blackness. Decoing in the basin was fun, great vis, no flow and sunlight was shining through.

During are surface interval we changed over gear and went to find Friedman's from the surface. After a little driving and walking through the woods we found it, with not to much of an issue. The surface water was muddy and you couldn't tell where the enterance was.

For our second dive, we left from Catfish, and where going to stage a bottle, make it to Friedman's and then checkout some of the jumps on the way back. We fought the flow for the second time and made it to Friedman's surfaced for 10mins and then headed back to Catfish, checking out a jump about 400' from Friedman and another one closer to Sue's but not sure the distance it was the one with the plastic PVC T. After returning to the mainline we drifted out and decoed out in Catfish. I don't believe anything changed with the conditions but I enjoyed this dive much more then my first.

Had a couple of questions though:
1) We wanted to drift out to Manatee but did not see a line. Is there one or do you just flow out? If so is it a large or small opening at Manatee?

2) Is the Sewer the jump about 400' from Friedman's? and what ever that jump is there was a very thin line and it was covered with alge and after 10' or so the line was wrapped around a rock and then disappeared. Is there a line there, that continues?

3) What is the jump called that has the PVC T in the sand area. Once on the jumpline, it starts to narrow, does it open up again, is it backmountable?

4) If you want to enter at Friedman's, swim upstream and exit at Catfish or Manatee, what are your suggestions if you have one car and parking etc.

Sorry I can only answer that there is a line to Manatee,and it is a relaxing drift dive 400 ft or so.The opening is plenty big,I would exit one at a time with your wing empty.

where is it located from the two signs that are there?

I am almost certain (someone correct me if this is wrong) that the line connecting catfish to the main spring was near the sign. I've always been leary of exiting that way because it is a blind traverse. Also, it is important to get very negative and find a way to slow down as you near the exit to avoid a too rapid ascent.

there are 3 signs
one in CH and 2 in in Manatee side by side

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

Had a couple of questions though:
1) We wanted to drift out to Manatee but did not see a line. Is there one or do you just flow out? If so is it a large or small opening at Manatee?

2) Is the Sewer the jump about 400' from Friedman's? and what ever that jump is there was a very thin line and it was covered with alge and after 10' or so the line was wrapped around a rock and then disappeared. Is there a line there, that continues?

3) What is the jump called that has the PVC T in the sand area. Once on the jumpline, it starts to narrow, does it open up again, is it backmountable?

4) If you want to enter at Friedman's, swim upstream and exit at Catfish or Manatee, what are your suggestions if you have one car and parking etc.

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1) Yes there is a line beyond the sign. It ends at a piece of rebar where you can see the exit.
2) Sewer Tunnel is a couple of hundred feet downstream from Friedman's
3) Rabbit Hole...It exits into the basin at catfish
4) Stage vehicles

Please make a conditions report - http://www.tampadiving.com/sections/...D=58&region=FL

are both those jumps, diveable with backmount? also where can i get an up to date map?

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

are both those jumps, diveable with backmount? also where can i get an up to date map?

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The Rabbit Hole jump is sidemount only. The Sewer tunnel is backmount but if you try the Friedman bypass you are going to probably want sidemount (it will get messy).

As far as a map is concenred, there are a few (System Map is probably the best) on my site under the resources tab. Currently, Mike Poucher (www.cavesurvey.com) is working on re-surveying Manatee.

The Rabbit hole is easily back mountable.That's what my buddy and I used a few months
ago when we relined it. ( and I'm 6'5" 250.) I would go upstream, because it will zero
viz. using it as an exit.

The rabbit hole, as its being called, starts maybe 50 feet past the start of the goldline going upstream from Catfish, on the right and goes back up to the basin. If you go to the far side of the sink from the steps, there is a small entrance there. I remember it as a sidemount entrance, but it may be possible to squeeze through on backmount.

The Sewer tunnel is 203' from Friedman. If you saw a line that ended tied around a small rock and the tunnel was about 3 feet in diameter, you were close. The sewer tunnel is to the right(upstream) about 20 feet away. Its on the ceiling next to the left wall.

I am re-mapping the cave and hope to have a map ready in November that will incluse the first 3000 to 4000 feet of cave from Friedmans.

thanks for the info, i want to start diving this system, a little more often. Trying to go about once a week or maybe every other week. I can do Tuesdays and Thursdays, and sometimes weekends. I am diving sidemount or can do it in BM, so if anyone is interested or if any of you with more experience in this system want some help or to show me around some, I would appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

4) If you want to enter at Friedman's, swim upstream and exit at Catfish or Manatee, what are your suggestions if you have one car and parking etc.

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Actually, you can easily walk from Catfish back to Friedman's. The short cut is through the campground (turn left as you are walking to the main parking lot from Catfish). It takes about 10-15 minutes. Probably best not leave any valuable but portable gear lying around, although we've never had any problems.

Andy

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

4) If you want to enter at Friedman's, swim upstream and exit at Catfish or Manatee, what are your suggestions if you have one car and parking etc.

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As mentioned staging vehicles works but we've always left one with the gear at the exit and the other walk back to get the car. I think we've given up the staging deco at the exit and will just drop it at Friedman's and carry it to whatever exit.

In addition to the "Rabbit Hole" (which is pretty dang tight for backmount) you may also want to checkout the side line midway between Catfish and Manetee. It goes a long way and is quite challenging.

The best way to dive Friedman's is defiantly to stage vehicles. It makes it easier than worrying about where to leave the gear if you walk back. My partner and I dove Manatee yesterday and I felt the flow was actually down a little bit. Was able to pull myself into the head spring twice after are relatively short dive(time limit). I also found the there are 2 holes in the ground at sue 1 inflow and one outflow had not come across that before very cool.
I did notice yesterday there was no line in the inflow side of Sue and was wandering if it had been removed for a reason, like pothole at Peacock I though the line was there for emergency exits so as to be easily found.
The down stream line to the main spring is about 30ft in from the sign one the re bar and could be challenging to find due to low vis if you don't know where to look. All in all great dive saw more the cave than I had seen in the past.

John

Yes, I agree with John's post above. It was a great dive yesterday at Manatee. The vis seemed better than usual and the flow not as hard. And I always say that being shot out of the head spring in one of nature's best rides. Sure beats any amusement park as far as I'm concerned.
After our cave dive I enjoyed a nice dive with my recently certified 13 year-old son in the head spring basin.
A great day of diving!

Gene

Can someone provide a report of recent conditions?

Thanks,
Dave

Dive Report from 1/29/09
http://tampadiving.com/sections/divi...=162&region=FL


Questions
1) 900’ upstream of Friedman, just past a big rock off the left wall there looks like a jump to a tunnel, but there is not line in it or double arrow. Is that jump or passageway?

2) About 270’ upstream of Friedman, white arrow (dirty, no markings), jump on right side. Is this the end of the Bypass?

3) Made it 1500' upstream of Friedman and figured I should see the Milk tunnel. I guess i missed it, but is it Marked? anyone have a Distance?

4) The Line markers upstream of Friedman went 1000’, 1100’, 1000’, 1200’ why is that?

5) How far is the the bypass? and how long is it from the main tunnel down the sewer to the bypass?

Clarifications
1) The Sewer tunnel (Backmount) is 203' downstream from Friedman. You will see a line that ended tied around a small rock and the tunnel was about 3 feet in diameter (On left wall if heading downstream). The sewer tunnel is that line? Or is it near that jump and if so where?

2) The rabbit hole (Sidemount), starts maybe 50 feet past the start of the goldline going upstream from Catfish, on the right and goes downstream back to Catfish basin. If you go to the far side of the sink from the steps, there is a small entrance there.


Also looking for a buddy for Thursday morning if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
Ant

1. I think you're talking about the Pillar Room. It's just a loop.

2. Yes.

3. The Milk Tunnel is 700' upstream of Friedman's. Usually the water gets clearer once you're past it.

4. No idea. I do not know who put those line markers in.

The Sewer tunnel does not begin directly from the main passage, but is a very short jump off the Chalkley Bypass. The downstream end of the bypass is tied off high on the left hand wall (as you're going downstream) above a bank of silt. The main line is tied to a post on the floor on the other side of the main passage at this point. About 100-150' up the Bypass (after a sharp turn to the left) there is a double line arrow and the Sewer tunnel begins as a vertical fracture on the right. The jump is only about 6 feet. If you find yourself at a low bedding plane restriction you've missed it. However, the rest of the Bypass is worth seeing, with some cool clay banks.

If you go any distance up the Sewer tunnel be careful, because the line is fragile and has already broken many times. We are planning to reline it soon.

Andy

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Originally Posted by apitkin

3. The Milk Tunnel is 700' upstream of Friedman's. Usually the water gets clearer once you're past it.

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If you are attentive, you can see that the area around the entrance to the Milk Tunnel is cloudy (hence the name)...It will not look like a regular jump. You need to go through a small entrance and the line will be staked to your left once you go over a mound.

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Originally Posted by DeepSea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apitkin

3. The Milk Tunnel is 700' upstream of Friedman's. Usually the water gets clearer once you're past it.

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If you are attentive, you can see that the area around the entrance to the Milk Tunnel is cloudy (hence the name)...It will not look like a regular jump. You need to go through a small entrance and the line will be staked to your left once you go over a mound.

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I have heard numbers from 700' to 900', whats your take on the distance? And if I understand you correctly its not marked at all but you will see it get cloudy, its on the right wall if heading upstream and line will be on your left?

do you know what the distance is from sewer to bypass jump?

thanks,
ant

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

I have heard numbers from 700' to 900', whats your take on the distance? And if I understand you correctly its not marked at all but you will see it get cloudy, its on the right wall if heading upstream and line will be on your left?

do you know what the distance is from sewer to bypass jump?

thanks,
ant

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The Milk Tunnel is just upstream of the 800' marker...

The Sewer Tunnel is a jump from the Chakley's Bypass. If you get on that line the jump is to the right about 100' in the right....

Chalkey’s Bypass
- 200’ downstream Friedman on left wall
- Line lied off to a rock on the right wall of the tunnel heading upstream
- Becomes low bedding plane after 100-150’
- Connects to Sewer tunnel & Friedman bypass


Sewer Tunnel
- fragile line
- 100 -150’ upstream of Chalkey’s Bypass (After sharp left turn)
- Double line arrow, jump is vertical fracture on right
- 6 - 20’ jump between Chalkey’s Bypass & Sewer Tunnel

Is this correct? Also where does the Friedman Bypass interest the chalkey bypass?

thanks,
ant

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

Chalkey’s Bypass
- 200’ downstream Friedman on left wall
- Line lied off to a rock on the right wall of the tunnel heading upstream
- Becomes low bedding plane after 100-150’
- Connects to Sewer tunnel & Friedman bypass


Sewer Tunnel
- fragile line
- 100 -150’ upstream of Chalkey’s Bypass (After sharp left turn)
- Double line arrow, jump is vertical fracture on right
- 6 - 20’ jump between Chalkey’s Bypass & Sewer Tunnel

Is this correct? Also where does the Friedman Bypass interest the chalkey bypass?

thanks,
ant

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Yep...and they are the same (Freidman's Bypass IS Chalkley's Bypass). Chalkley's Bypass is named for Tex Chalkley

Mike Poucher just released a new map of Manatee...It is a great resource. he has it for sale on his site - http://www.cavesurvey.com/Online%20store.htm

thanks

yeah i will be getting a map, i just like going myself and making notes on my map. it kinda fun to find the other stuff thats not on the older maps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atedeschi

Chalkey’s Bypass
- Line lied off to a rock on the right wall of the tunnel heading upstream
- Becomes low bedding plane after 100-150’
- Connects to Sewer tunnel & Friedman bypass
ant

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The line is on the left, up high under an overhang.

What Walter said... You can also get the map from the CDS and NACD.