Just Wandering does anyone ever get that I shouldn't be diving(before, or during a dive) feeling? What do you do?
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Just Wandering does anyone ever get that I shouldn't be diving(before, or during a dive) feeling? What do you do?
When you feel this way, it is probably wise to bail: Turn the dive or don't do it. If you are not up to it, then your noggen will trigger some thoughts about cutting it short, before you get into trouble. Otherwise called a gut feeling. I've had this happen, & it is best to let your dive buddies know ahead of time.....they will never call you a woose for not wanting to continue a dive that you are uncomfortable with. A good buddy is one who respects your uneasy feelings towards any dive that you are not comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsffa
Hope this helps
je
if it don't feel right it just ain't right. I have aborted dives just cause it felt wrong.
MA
cavediver256 on here told me what one of his mentors passed on to him, and I thought it was a great quote.... "It's just a hole, you can dive it again another day".
All divers should practise this philosphy, if it doubt then DON'T. I've learn't to heed to my inner voice, it's a warning mechanism that your going beyond your comfort zone if you do the dive. The cave won't go away - dive it another day when the time is right!Quote:
Originally Posted by JE
As you already know you can abort a dive at anytime for any reason!
I feel another story coming on! I was diving Oleno with Al. Very dark water but we were used to it. We had a miscommunication on which way to go on the line when we hit the bottom of the sink T that marked the upstream - downstream. He went up and I went down. The flow was very strong and as I turned to go back I was actually tumbled by the rush of flow and ended up off the line. It seems I was in a V in the cave and I never did find the line. The flow was so strong I was being moved farther into the cave as I was searching. I started running line and ran into a tree going straight up. I found I was in a new sink hole. Tired and confused I climbed out, grabbed my gear and went looking for the sink I entered at and Al. I found it and of course Al was still looking for me in the water. I could see his bubbles but simply could not forse myself to get back in that black water. It was a terrible sensation. Al finally used up his air and came out to get help and found me waiting. I have never left a buddy in a cave since but it happened that day and I am still upset with myself over it. It taught me a lot of humility that day.
My buddies and I call dives all the time for just not feeling right about the dive. I have even done it at the surface. We all just go eat someplace. The kind of diving we do it is just expected to happen now and then. Cindy Butler
I have always worked on heading home on a dive if you reach thirds or fear which ever comes first.
Andrew.
good story Cindy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
Most of you have suggested calling the dive when the spooky feeling shows up. But sometimes you get spooked (or uneasy) or you here that voice that says, "this is crazy, you shouldn't be here," and you swallow hard, shake your head, and keep going.
It's natural to feel a bit spooked from time to time, but whether it means it's time to end the dive or become more aware, a bit more cautious, depends on the circumstances.
-skip
I've got you beat. Several weeks ago I was going to make a day trip to Jackson Blue. I packed all my gear Saturday night, so all I had to do was wake up early Sunday and head south.
I woke up, and was checking the Forum before leaving, and something just didn't feel right. I sat there for a few minutes, staring at the computer screen. Then I changed my mind and didn't go.
I went a week later and had two great dives.
Everybody gets the willies sooner or later. I always go ahead with the dive and usually they go away.
If they get worse, call it. A short dive is better than no dive.
Hey Skip, funny this thread should show up just after the conversation we had yesterday, huhQuote:
Originally Posted by skip
I've had it happen both ways. I've called dives before even leaving the house. Sometimes you just have the feeling that today is not the day to dive. I've also called dives in the water because I've had a strange feeling come on me.
I will also admit that I've had strange thoughts come on and just pushed them back and continued the dive. The only time this happens is in a system I'm very familiar with. Fortunately, nothing has gone wrong on those dives. I guess I just got "spooked" as skip puts it. But if I'm in an unfamiliar cave or I'm solo, I head out.
Yeah, that's right! I thought the same thing Howard. We talk on the phone, then there it is on the forum! almost makes one believe in conceptual cycles, rather than just plain coincidence.
And yes, I agree with you RN. sometimes you don't even leave the house, but find something else to do - it's just not feeling right today.
Plato (that old greek guy) claimed that those gut-feelings, intuition, hunches, etc., were some universal hidden reality trying to tell you some fundamental truth, so listen up!
Aristotle (another old greek guy) argued back and said those gut-feelings were based on your own past experiences speaking to you in the present! perhaps some common thing between what's going on now and what was going on then...unconscious memories associated with certain events give rise to gut-feelings when similar events occur in the present.
-skip
I've had a few problems in caves (thankfully only a few), but not one was preceded by a "feeling." In fact in all three cases everything was just fine until the s**t hit the fan! where was that spooking feeling then?
well, maybe acting on the spooking feeling is what prevented problems and when no spooky feeling, I just proceed with the mistaken (ignorance is bliss?) assumption that things are ok - until they suddenly weren't!
-skip
My thought process is this: Anyone can call the dive at anytime for any reason, no questions asked! Been diving since 1966 and can't even begin to list the number of dives I've called due to "just a bad feeling". My most rememberd abort was in the early 70's. We were diving The Arabia in the Georgian Bay. I got down the anchor line and at 50 feet, I couldn't go any further. I looked at my buddy, shrugged and called it. In those days, it was a major expedition to get a boat to take you out there....seems we call a dive a few times a month these days. As previously said: The cave aint going anywere....we'll dive it next week.....Ken
I've only ever heard one time when a buddy got a *little* ticked off because a dive was called.
Two friends of mine were diving in Telford. Both divers SAC/RMV must have been pretty good because it was turning out to be a long dive. One diver eventually thumbed it still well before thirds. When they got to the surface, one buddy asked the other what the problem was.
His response....He was hungry!
They actually both had a good chuckle over it.
I've called several dives for being hungry... it suprises nobody though :/Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcauliffe
Mat - Don't buy a rebreather. You'll never get your monies worth out of it! :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by SuPrBuGmAn
If something doesn't feel right, I don't do the dive. Many times it is a circumstance that makes me think, "this will sound really stupid in the accident report".
WJH
Remember what Mr Skiles said.Quote:
Originally Posted by skip
"The Voice Of Ambition, The Voice Of Caution"
Even when Skiles dives solo, he's never completely alone. There are always two voices running through his head: the voice of ambition and the voice of caution. One voice pushes him to make more discoveries. The other prevents him from plunging into the abyss. With every dive that he makes, Skiles faces a critical choice: He must decide which of those voices to heed. The answer isn't always clear".
"You have to judge the motivations of each voice," he says. "You have to ask yourself, Why is the 'don't go' voice so loud today? Is it because my problem-solving skills aren't as sharp as they should be? Or is that voice just a defensive mechanism, and if I ignore it, I'll have a great dive? When you call a dive, you never know whether you did the right thing. But there's one thing that I do know: If THE SAFETY VOICE ISN'T THERE, SOMETHING IS WRONG. I've got to make myself slow down and give the dive proper consideration"
I have never dove under the influence of anything,but can only imagine how someone whos had a few drinks may feel invincible,however someone on say pot,which makes you think more of your own awareness[so ive been told]may spook you temporarily,and that might be a good thing.A clear head to deal with any unforseen problems is ,of course,important.Personally I dont care for Peacock III,but I may be fine with it next time who knows.
For some 'EGO' by itself is enough to push through and ignore all other calls; internal or external.
I've turned dives on hungry (turn signal and point to stomach)
Got the willies in akumal, shallow cave, avg depth 12 feet and it was an hour into the dive, and was still swimming in, no flow, it dawned on me how far away from air I was and I had to talk myself down, funny thing is that never crosses my mind in florida.
Turned solo dives on the "this is far enough" factor
Usually what keeps me out of the water before a dive is
dehydration, didn't like the dive plan, don't like the team member(s), lack of sleep etc, never had the "voice says don't go" before a dive. I just get the feelings of I can do this dive, but I'm probably better off if I don't because of factors X, Y or Z
The book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker.
It is all about why and how we have the feelings we do.
And why we should listen to them.
Rogue
LOL! Not a problem, I don't forsee ever having the monies to put into it! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mmcauliffe
I think cave diving really focuses these things and makes them more intense.
I'm just a baby cave diver, but I had the experience in Jackson Blue a couple of weeks ago of turning a dive because I just didn't want to be there any more. A lot of little things, nothing major, but I just wanted to go home. It was a surprisingly difficult thing to do -- I kept thinking my buddies were going to be irked with me (and I suspect they were, but they hid it pretty well.)
For those of you who have turned dives on a feeling you couldn't put your finger on, did you get any grief from your companions, or did they understand?
I got some 'banter type' of grief ("Oh, were your little legs tired?', "Was that hole too dark for you?"), but -and this is a rule we live by- any diver can call any dive at any time for any reason. Under the water there was never a question/ comments. Afterwards a question as to why is normal I think. 'Just did not want to be there anymore' is a valid reason and always accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
I know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by fixxervi6
I once turned a dive because I had to pee really, really, really, really bad. (Semi-dry suit, and trust me, it was as dry as a drysuit.) My friend Robert let me hear about that for a WHILE.
In hindsight, I should have lied and said I was feeling spooked. He wouldn't have had a problem with that at all.
Honestly, it didn't bother me. Those dives were your dives anyway. I get to do my own dives all the time there. BTW, did my 2nd scooter dive in JB today. Called it way before 1/3s because the visibility dropped down to about 10' back at 1600'. I kept going, probably farther than I should have, but Jenn stopped. I have to admit she was right not to go on there. We had a great time scootering back out and playing around in some of the different areas of the cave with out scooters. And we're looking forward to our 3rd scooter dive in there tomorrow!Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
Rob, I wasn't all that worried about you! You get to dive JB whenever you want. It was my husband I figured was ticked . . .
I have gotten all the way to dive site and opened up gear and put on dry suite and thought it don't feel right and I told team to go without me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
RN's post reminded me of a good story. I loaned a scooter to an apprentice diver to try in JB. I made him promise not to go out of the cavern zone, and he agreed. When he got back, he told me that he started to go a little furthur, but was overcome by a nagging feeling that he should turn back. What I hadn't told him was that the previous owner of that scooter died in JB, about where he turned back.
Maybe Wes is right about ghosts....
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5794
Forrest, My dive buddy and I were just learning and everytime we went past where our instructor advised us to go we could both hear his voice telling us to go back. You guys can throw your voices, don't try to fool us!! Either that or it's the crayfish radio! Cindy :)
Ok, that's creepy.....
Forrest WilsonQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
Interesting you brought up this thread. Just an FYI there was a HUGE upswelling of locals and environmentalist to protect the springs. The permit for Blue Springs has been denied on a local level and it looks like the bottling companies will end up losing this one. They only have one more year to try and get the factories in per a state authorization. Among the issues were road use, quality of life, our diminishing water table, low flow and bacteria etc. from the springs.
Cave divers are on both sides of the issue. I hope the next time the divers who support the companies are in those springs they hear a little voice telling them to protect it...
Sorry to Hijack the tread but at least no one is fighting at the end of this one...Cindy :D
LOL! I've lost count of how many times I've had dives called on me. There will always be another day to dive. He couldn't have been too ticked. He did get that extra dive in December.Quote:
Originally Posted by LCF
I remember turning that dive with you in Ginnie when you led us up the line past where I thought we were going to jump. I was confused and you were going the right way, but as we kept going I got more and more nervous. Finally decided it was time to turn around. Strange how stuff like that can bother you. It wasn't like we were off the line, or had made a strange jump or anything. I just wasn't sure where we were on the mainline anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
There was an article Wes Skiles did years ago that had a bunch of good quotes. Here is a good one for the article:
--- Wes Skiles article from Fast Company ---
To evaluate the risks of underwater-cave exploration, Skiles starts by evaluating himself. He does this by leveraging the "theory of pie." A pie is a metaphor for a diver's maximum problem-solving potential. As he preps for a dive and descends into a cave system, the diver loses a slice of pie with each distraction or setback. An O-ring blows while he's gearing up, and he has to stop and change it: Take away a slice. He accidentally sets his tanks down on a dive light and cracks it: There goes another slice. If he loses too many slices, the diver must quit: He must call the dive. If he doesn't -- if he makes the dive with just half a pie -- he won't have all of the mental resources that he needs to deal with a real underwater emergency.
Skiles first put the pie theory into play when he was 19. He was on a dive with Sheck Exley, a cave-diving pioneer who set numerous world records for deep dives. (Exley died in 1994, while diving below 900 feet in Mexico.) Their plan was to dive into the cave system in Florida's Blue Springs, swim 3,000 feet back into the network of tunnels, and lay 1,000 feet of line. (That is, push another 1,000 feet into the unexplored system.)
"It was a hot day, and I felt really rushed as we geared up," Skiles recalls. "When we got into the system, Sheck started swimming really hard, and I had trouble keeping up with him. My pacing wasn't good that day. Then my regulator started to leak. I could still breathe through it, but it was free-flowing pretty hard. So I flashed Sheck down and showed him that my regulator was bubbling. And he looked at me like, '####, all of my regulators bubble.'
"If ever there was a guy who I would blindly follow no matter what, especially at that age, it was Sheck Exley," Skiles continues. "It was a major embarrassment for me to disappoint Sheck. But I knew that I had lost too many slices. I had to call the dive."
And that's exactly what he did. In a way, it would have been easier to keep swimming after Exley; Skiles didn't want his hero to doubt his skill and courage. But looking back on the experience, Skiles realizes that it took even more guts to call the dive. In the long run, quitting gave Skiles the confidence to push on -- to take on even bigger challenges -- because he knew that he had the mental agility to manage the pie.
My "pie slice" maximum is 3. Three things go wrong, I call the dive.
Wow, I really like that metaphor! Especially the fact that, even if the problem is solved and completely overcome, it's taken something out of you. The dive I turned started with a fin coming off, which got fixed, and continued with a seeping mask, which I was coping with, and went on to getting winded trying to get through the flow at the chute . . . I'd lost too many pieces of pie, and now I have a way to express that!
Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Simpson