Saturday at Little River

With the greatly increased number of folks cave diving both from the US as well as folks from abroad grows an increase of folks with little experience. There were a great number of people there Saturday with 7-8 reels run to the stake. The most disturbing thing was someone used gold braid to jump from the main line to the Harper tunnel. This could be potentially dangerous to the inexperienced. I know there were at least two groups there Saturday that was there for the first time. Just thought I'd mention it.

Personally, I think the main line should start at the stake.

People have to learn someplace. Little River is about the largest and most suitable for that many lines. You really don't even need one since you can see daylight from the bottom of the turn to the surface. Don't get freaky on me guys, I am not advocating not running lines. I'm just saying you can get high in there and stay away from them. Are we all turning into a bunch of babies? Where are people supposed to learn? You all must be getting bored if all you have to complain about is too many lines in a HUGE cavern...
Dang that Menopause has me going today..
I love you guys, REALLY....

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Originally Posted by rlc5925

.... The most disturbing thing was someone used gold braid to jump from the main line to the Harper tunnel. This could be potentially dangerous to the inexperienced. I know there were at least two groups there Saturday that was there for the first time. Just thought I'd mention it.

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That is very disturbing. To those of you with more experience than me...is there any logical reason someone would be using gold braid to make a jump? I can't think of any...but...

Had I seen that, I think I would have had to follow it in, find the owner, and ask "WTH?".

Shirley

Explain Gold Braided Line???

Did someone have a spool of gold line that they used for a jump???

More likely it was #18 High viz yellow!

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Originally Posted by Cindy

People have to learn someplace. Little River is about the largest and most suitable for that many lines. You really don't even need one since you can see daylight from the bottom of the turn to the surface. Don't get freaky on me guys, I am not advocating not running lines. I'm just saying you can get high in there and stay away from them. Are we all turning into a bunch of babies? Where are people supposed to learn? You all must be getting bored if all you have to complain about is too many lines in a HUGE cavern...
Dang that Menopause has me going today..
I love you guys, REALLY....

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People can learn to run a reel anywhere they want to. Just because the goldline comes out to OW or there's a "guaranteed" exit from where the goldline starts doesn't mean you're forbidden to run a reel, for practice or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by rlc5925

The most disturbing thing was someone used gold braid to jump from the main line to the Harper tunnel. This could be potentially dangerous to the inexperienced. I know there were at least two groups there Saturday that was there for the first time. Just thought I'd mention it.

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I'd guess this is someone's well used hi viz yellow that's no longer that hi viz. I'd hope that even an inexperience team would notice the spool at the end of that line and turn back to the main line to either set their own spool or continue on the main line.

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Originally Posted by billyf

Explain Gold Braided Line???

Did someone have a spool of gold line that they used for a jump???

More likely it was #18 High viz yellow!

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Originally Posted by RN

I'd guess this is someone's well used hi viz yellow that's no longer that hi viz. I'd hope that even an inexperience team would notice the spool at the end of that line and turn back to the main line to either set their own spool or continue on the main line.

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You guys are probably right...sounds logical. Whew!

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Originally Posted by OneBrightGator

People can learn to run a reel anywhere they want to. Just because the goldline comes out to OW or there's a "guaranteed" exit from where the goldline starts doesn't mean you're forbidden to run a reel, for practice or otherwise.

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Amen! Well said, Ben.

OK, just to clarify. sorry I brought up the reel.s But after 22 years of cave diving and hovering over the jump while people cleared out of the way I know the difference between hi viz line and gold braid. And for others wondering, gold braid is what is used for the permanent main line in Little River. I'm not complaining, not trying to stir up anything or hurt any feelings. Just thought some folks might find some usefulness out of the post. Thanks

Hi, Don't feel bad, if every post anybody ever made was perfect or accepted by everybody it would be a boring world. I am sort of in the stand tall and don't be afraid to have an opinion or take it in the chin now and then group. I think there is a saying about that, "those who never fail, do so at the risk of never succeeding because they will not have tried" or something like that.
I am curious why you think that jumping off a gold line is wrong. Where would you tie off at too jump to another line and keep a continuous line to the surface? For example, the little sidemount cave at the top of the second drop in the cave. I have always tied into the gold line. I have seen a lot of lines tied into gold lines over the years and am curious who taught you not to do that or where you got that impression? I see an article in the making here. Cindy :)

Cindy
Thanks for the kind words. I have no problem with jumping off the main line, I do it all the time. Tha problem is that it was done with the same kind of line as the main line as opposed to a smaller line that is typically found on reels. An inexperenced diver might possibly turn off the main line following the jump back to a section they intended not to go to. Anyway, the intention was ment to be costructive not inflamatory

Funny thing about that is one of the icons of cave diving took my friends and I to task for not having a reel with gold line on it to do repairs if needed. I don't see a problem so long as the line is correctly marked, a cave diver or at least someone on the team should be able to see what happened and run their own jump line or just keep on the primary gold line. If I get you right the problem would be if someone got on the line not realising it was a jump and not a "T" and not run his own jump over. The would only be an issue if the first diver pulled his gold jump line. Personally I can tell a jump from a T and hope most divers could. You would really figure it out when you get to the line where the jump reel is tied off. At most it would cost a diver a couple of fin strokes and maybe make them pay a little more attention. The message here is to make sure you learn a cave, pay attention to all junctions and your surroundings, and put your own lines in. Also don't just follow a leader blindly and be sure no matter where you are in the team you check all marking and junctions. Glad you brought this subject up, Cindy :)

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Originally Posted by Cindy

The message here is to make sure you learn a cave, pay attention to all junctions and your surroundings, and put your own lines in. Also don't just follow a leader blindly and be sure no matter where you are in the team you check all marking and junctions. Glad you brought this subject up, Cindy :)

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My reason for the post. Not all are at the same level of experience or training or for that matter even trained at all.

I was at Little River Saturday also, I saw the referenced jump. The jump line certainly appeared to be the same size and color (gold) line as the Main Line. My first thought was WTH. But it was apparent that the jump line was just the same kind of line as the main line.
Had I been a little more narced out at the time. Just for fun, I would have lined the JUMP line with about 9 or 10 cookies or clothes pins, and placed a cable tie at the tie off. Pull up a lawn chair and wait for the Kodak moment to begin. It would have been priceless, but then again, who would do something mean like that???

Line in a cave is placed as a secondary navigational tool. The primary navigation is learning the cave visually and progressing into it slowly. Was it once in the cave class program? If navigation becomes too stressful for somebody maybe it is a time to call the dive.

Talking about LR my biggest concern for today is that as we heard from a park ranger - after it becomes a state park there will be certainly no scootering (not to mention a solo). So grab all you reels an SS-es now and catch the moment :-)

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Originally Posted by ARY

Talking about LR my biggest concern for today is that as we heard from a park ranger - after it becomes a state park there will be certainly no scootering (not to mention a solo). So grab all you reels an SS-es now and catch the moment :-)

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Well that is really unfortunate, what the hell are we going to do when the flow comes back?

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Originally Posted by rlc5925

OK, just to clarify. sorry I brought up the reel.s But after 22 years of cave diving and hovering over the jump while people cleared out of the way I know the difference between hi viz line and gold braid. And for others wondering, gold braid is what is used for the permanent main line in Little River. I'm not complaining, not trying to stir up anything or hurt any feelings. Just thought some folks might find some usefulness out of the post. Thanks

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Didn't mean to imply you don't know the difference. I've seen some of the new spools and line out there that looks a lot like gold braid. I haven't seen the thick hi viz yellow, but I did see some thick purple colored line on a jump in Peacock once that was just as thick as gold braid. Personally, I use standard 24# cave line. I'm not sure I understand the reason for all the other lines coming out lately. I've tried to get a hold of gold braid to carry for the occasional repair, but have been told the only way to get it is by ordering it in lots of 1000'.

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Originally Posted by RN

. I've tried to get a hold of gold braid to carry for the occasional repair, but have been told the only way to get it is by ordering it in lots of 1000'.

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If you just want some to "patch with" either Jim Wyatt or myself usually have gold braid on hand, feel free to grab some anytime....

Safe diving,

Rich

And I was just in your area this past weekend! I'll be over that way again soon and stop by. Thanks for the offer.

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Originally Posted by Daedalus

Well that is really unfortunate, what the hell are we going to do when the flow comes back?

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There will be a run on AL80's :-D

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Originally Posted by RN

I've tried to get a hold of gold braid to carry for the occasional repair, but have been told the only way to get it is by ordering it in lots of 1000'.

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I have a couple of thousand feet of Gold line pulled out of Devil's cave when we relined it this summer. The line is in pretty good shape and will work fine for patching. I keep it in my pick 'em up truck...so if you see me at the dive site, just ask.

I can also mail you a 100 feet or so....let me have your address.

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Originally Posted by ARY

Talking about LR my biggest concern for today is that as we heard from a park ranger - after it becomes a state park there will be certainly no scootering (not to mention a solo). So grab all you reels an SS-es now and catch the moment :-)

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Why no scooters?

There are other state parks which allow scooters and have done so for a long time with no issues.

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Originally Posted by defunct

Why no scooters?

There are other state parks which allow scooters and have done so for a long time with no issues.

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What parks? Manatee is the only one i know. God bless them.

Not sure why. My guess is there were too much public concern about fragile cave environment. Thus we are getting what we were asking for. If we keep bitching here about cave damage the rule makers will respond with prohibitive policies. Always easier than try to understand what is exactly the damage and how it really affect the surface life. They won't go down there to evaluate it they just will read this forum and make mental marks...

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Originally Posted by ARY

What parks? Manatee is the only one i know. God bless them.

Not sure why. My guess is there were too much public concern about fragile cave environment. Thus we are getting what we were asking for. If we keep bitching here about cave damage the rule makers will respond with prohibitive policies. Always easier than try to understand what is exactly the damage and how it really affect the surface life. They won't go down there to evaluate it they just will read this forum and make mental marks...

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Having people tote 5 stage bottles and claw their way to their destination is definitely going to have less impact that someone scootering.