Scooter Watt's Up Data

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10-11-2007 01:39 AM
Gary

Scooter Watt's Up Data

I've been having fun with my "watt's up meter" collecting data on different scooter speed settings and gear configurations. Thought I'd share what little I'd gathered so far:

Code:

Dive Ah Ap Total Dial Ah/ft Dist Estimate Config 1082 9.373 18.27 7200 6 0.0013 12291 Doubles 1084 10.624 21.48 6300 9 0.0017 9488 Doubles + stage 1083 7.997 19.94 3200 9 0.0025 6400 "dirty profile" with 2 stage 2 wings 2 scooters - into flow Estimates: Speed (flow compensate) Doubles Stage ? ?Worst case? Dial 1 80 88 77 63 2 89 96 84 68 3 98 104 91 74 4 109 113 99 80 5 122 123 107 87 6 135 134 117 95 7 150 146 127 103 8 167 158 138 112 9 185 172 150 122

Distance Estimate would be round trip capacity based on 16 Amp-hours of useful battery (supposed avg for a N-19 in a battery test) and speed estimates are highly speculative with only 3 data points so far.

Personally I'm collecting data to plan some long penetration dives to see how many scooters and stages we may need for the dive. Figured the data might be useful for others also.

While probably not identical across all scooters I thought having some info to plan from would be better then none.
10-11-2007 09:17 AM
aainslie

Consider getting one of these puppies:

http://www.bnbproducts.com/ - look at the DPR - II - 100. If you add the right connectors you can use these to check current usage during the dive.

Rodney lent me one when my scooter was playing up, and now I use it all the time to test current draw at different settings. It's pretty interesting, and will definitely give you a good idea (in conjunction with the watts-up, which I also use during charging) as to exactly what's going on in your scooter.
10-11-2007 03:09 PM
Gary

Very cool device.

You use the Watt's up on charging and in use? and the DPR also? Wow.

The DPR keeps the data when unplugged from the scooter? Do you run it on the motor side of the switch?

After my wetsuit was stolen a few weeks ago I've had this urge to add a GPS tracker to my scooter battery pack in case it ever "wanders away" at Ginnie. The next week after I started researching the idea I caught this in the news: http://www.theindychannel.com/news/14195732/detail.html

:)

Got any data to share on your scooter tesing?
10-11-2007 04:44 PM
FW

Wow, 1083 dives. How many are cave dives? (sorry about the hijack)
10-11-2007 05:40 PM
aainslie

I'm still collecting data on the scooter. I've been messing with the angle of attack on the prop blades, resulting in currents between 12A and 21A (!!) depending on setting. Voltage dropoff is noticably higher at higher settings.

The DPR goes in line between the battery and motor, just as the watts up does between the charger and the battery. After the dive you can download the recorded data. It has a cool feature where it doesn't record until you hit a threshold amperage - I set it to 12A.

I only use the watts up during charging as (by my understandng) it can't handle the large current under load.
10-11-2007 06:11 PM
Gary

2/3's are cave. Avg bottom time is just over an hour (omitting all that fun overhead time decoing in the cave). Avg bottom times run a little higher on the solo dives.
706 cave (with 619 > the CDS 30 min) 55 cavern and 184 cave-solo.
63 sidemount but only 39 of those in cave and 26 of those are solo.
We almost do as much sidemount OW in Bonnaire as cave in FL.

At my usual rate of diving I probably only have another 5 years to Wakulla Gold and maybe 6-8 to CDS International award. Many dives at Eagle's and Dieploder don't count towards the CDS awards of course but a rebreather may help with that. LOL

I wonder if I may have the only still functioning Bridge II dive computer. I use it to download all my dive data and have written a program to extract the data so it can be tracked. If the Bridge ever dies I'm going to need to convert to a new downloader. :( At this point the Sensus Pro looks like it may be the one. At least I can get to the data without excessive crazyness.
10-11-2007 06:24 PM
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

I only use the watts up during charging as (by my understandng) it can't handle the large current under load.

I've been using it in the scooter during dives. I think it's good to 50 amps and I've never hit half that - even at peak. (I can't find the instruction manual at the moment but I think that's what it said).

The instructions at the bottom of SS page http://www.silent-submersion.com/uv/uvprices/Prices.htm gives instructions for use in burn testing at 16 amps.

Its woked so far. I'd rather test in use and believe the Watt's Up then stick the battery on a burn tester to see how much juice it has left. Seems like creul and unusual punishment to the battery. ;-)

What kind of numbers are you seeing on the charge?
10-11-2007 08:22 PM
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by aainslie

I use it all the time to test current draw at different settings.

So what amp draws are you getting at the different settings?
Any related RPM or speed information?
10-11-2007 08:52 PM
aainslie

It's surprisingly different from time to time. I've learned a lot about scooters in the process.

The pitch setting is regulated by a threaded insert in the hub. That can be manipulated - I set mine up pretty carefully to maximise the pitch. Then there is a bit of hysteresis so teh setting is different depending on whether you go (say) from 5 to 7 or from 9 to 7.

Anyway I get between about 19-21 amps on 9 to about 12-14 on 1, depending on how I got there and what the voltage is.

I didn't realise the watts up could take so much current! I'll have to start using it in the scooter as well.
10-14-2007 11:31 AM
ScubaAl

Hello,

Can the Submerged "burntester and Watts up" be used on a Mako scooter? Have a used scooter showing up on Wed.
I'm new to the scooter world and I'm looking forward to using and learn about scooters.
Thanks for your help, Al
10-14-2007 11:52 AM
Gary

No reason you couldn't if you matched the connections. Good connectors on the SS and Watt's up - would be great on a Mako. (My old style Mako connectors got a little deformed over time probably got hot.)
10-14-2007 12:38 PM
Richard Atyeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

I wonder if I may have the only still functioning Bridge II dive computer. I use it to download all my dive data and have written a program to extract the data so it can be tracked. If the Bridge ever dies I'm going to need to convert to a new downloader. At this point the Sensus Pro looks like it may be the one. At least I can get to the data without excessive crazyness

I dive a bridge ll also where did you grt your D/ Ler I have been looking and cant find one. Richard
10-14-2007 11:41 PM
Gary

Back when they were $350 a friend of mine bought one. When he got out of diving I gave him $50 for it.

A few years ago I was visiting Dive Rite and they had a box full of them they were selling for $50 each. I bought a spare and gave it to yet another friend.

If you can't get one from Dive Rite I make be able to get it back from her since her Bridge computer died years ago. Even if you got one though I don't know how long your computer will keep going or if the current Dive Rite software still supports the old downloaders. Their new software doesn't even convert over the old Bridge log files.

Best best is call Dive Rite directly - if they still have downloaders around they should have some software somewhere as well.
10-15-2007 07:03 PM
aainslie

I just had a pm discussion offline that brought up a key point. These things definitely add a failure point. I've been testing mine in LA where a scooter is more of a toy than anything. In the caves, using these definitely adds a failure point and should probably be done with care, in high flow caves and/or with a buddy.

Edit - see Hugh's post below.
10-15-2007 07:03 PM
hhansard

Data Collection

Thanks for the burn data…

For burn testing, I use the CBT-II burn-tester by West Mountain Radio… Good product that I can recommend…

Question: If you put one of the BNB data collectors in-line between the battery and motor, what type of failure-point are you introducing? After seeing Andrew’s post, I e-mailed the company, and they indicate that the ground is looped, but the hot-leads are serial through the sensor… I was an engineer in a past life, so I was probably competent to analyze the MTBF (failure curve) about 10 (OK, 15) years ago, but not anymore…

Can anyone comment on the circuitry/failure modes/MTBF on this device? I personally do not scooter in further then I can swim out, and being a former aerospace engineer, I distrust gizmos...

hugh