Line extended to OW in Orange Grove

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09-24-2007 08:41 AM
chimie007

Line extended to OW in Orange Grove

So someone extended the main line at OG up to a tree branch in 20' of water in front of the steps. What's up with that ? How long has it been like that ? I know the vis is bad in OG right now, but half the fun is to drop into darkness and tie up to the big branch in front of the entrance. Extending the line doesn't sound like a smart thing to do considering there is OW diving there.

That said, I wish I had known since it would have saved me a clean up dive following the traverse but again I'm always looking for a reason to dive. Plus, the vis in OG was great this weekend.
09-24-2007 10:23 AM
jeffersonwsm

I saw that last Tuesday. We figure an instructor tied it in for cavern students?? We tied in our primary at 20ft and to the main line. Last time we were up the OG basin was like coffee. I don't think they sure allow OW divers in the basin with those conditions for safety reasons. Unless there doing an Adv OW class or specaility course. Divers should dive within there limits. Should not follow that line. Just my opinion

Happy diving
Jerome
09-24-2007 05:41 PM
Jason B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffersonwsm

Divers should dive within there limits. Should not follow that line. Just my opinion

Then run all lines to OW. :?
09-24-2007 06:19 PM
jeandiver

Re: Line extended to OW in Orange Grove

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimie007

Plus, the vis in OG was great this weekend.

Cool Beaners!
Thanks for the update. Much appreciated. :D

Da Beano
09-25-2007 05:53 AM
stairman

A couple weeks ago the open water vis was completely blown out,and they still let ow divers in.I was surprised they stayed down as long as they did.And they also had lights.It was even bad to the tree,and only cleared up in the cavern zone.
09-25-2007 07:10 AM
Major Restriction

Re: Line extended to OW in Orange Grove

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimie007

So someone extended the main line at OG up to a tree branch in 20' of water in front of the steps. What's up with that ? How long has it been like that ? I know the vis is bad in OG right now, but half the fun is to drop into darkness and tie up to the big branch in front of the entrance. Extending the line doesn't sound like a smart thing to do considering there is OW diving there.

That said, I wish I had known since it would have saved me a clean up dive following the traverse but again I'm always looking for a reason to dive. Plus, the vis in OG was great this weekend.

It wasn't there three weeks ago. I think that only entices OW divers to do thing they otherwise wouldn't do (and don't need to do).

Question: Who sets policy on something like this (i.e., when and where to run permanent lines) in a state park? If a (responsible) diver encounters something stupid like that can/should the diver remove it?
09-25-2007 07:52 AM
Gary

Re: Line extended to OW in Orange Grove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Restriction

Question: Who sets policy on something like this (i.e., when and where to run permanent lines) in a state park? If a (responsible) diver encounters something stupid like that can/should the diver remove it?

It can be corrected but only with great care. Before you remove a line leading to an exit you have to be damn sure there is no one depending on it. Usually for me this means finding the person who put it in, or verifing over several days or a week that no one is using it.

If it is a one entrance system and they would have to pass the line going in it can be a lot easier to yank something. But in a multi-entrance system like Peacock you can never tell when someone is setting up a traverse one day to complete days later.

In a state park it would probably be best to report it so they can get it removed. The rangers control access and can access the caves during the week after hours to have it removed and can even warn divers later that it was done if they think it may affect them. Same thing for most popular dive sites with a designated line commitee or maintainer. The nearest dive shop would be a good place to check on line protocal for a particular cave in the area (like who is maintianing the lines there) and/or to report something to get it removed.

That being said I have removed lines running to OW in OG before when I found someone had run a new permanant line leading into the deep section. :roll:
09-25-2007 09:32 AM
Jerry

Line to OW in OG

There is a Line Committee for Peacock Springs State Park; Mike Poucher is involved with it and may actually be in charge( I don't remember off-hand). It is against Park Rules for anyone to modifying the lines in any way without the Park Manager permission.

I'll notify Kelly on the CSO of this.

Jerry
09-25-2007 11:18 AM
Janet

PSSP

Ranger West asked me to inform you the line to open water at Orange Grove has been removed by an instructor at Richard's request. There is a line and safety committee for PSSP Jim Fishback is the chairman, there is also a springs management team above the PSSP line committee who decides with park management how the lines are run, as stated in a previous post no one is allowed to add or take away line in the caves at PSSP except for the line committee, that of course does not include repairing a broken line that you should fix and report so a line committee member can check it out when they are in that area of the cave for safety reasons.
Thank You,
Janet
09-25-2007 05:49 PM
Kelly Jessop

Re: PSSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSSP

Ranger West asked me to inform you the line to open water at Orange Grove has been removed by an instructor at Richard's request. There is a line and safety committee for PSSP Jim Fishback is the chairman, there is also a springs management team above the PSSP line committee who decides with park management how the lines are run, as stated in a previous post no one is allowed to add or take away line in the caves at PSSP except for the line committee, that of course does not include repairing a broken line that you should fix and report so a line committee member can check it out when they are in that area of the cave for safety reasons.
Thank You,
Janet

Thanks Janet,well said.
If I understand correctly altering lines in Peacock is a misdemeanor offense under state law. Which could mean you get to wear an orange vest and pick up trash along the side of the road.
09-25-2007 07:17 PM
OneBrightGator

Re: PSSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

If I understand correctly altering lines in Peacock is a misdemeanor offense under state law. Which could mean you get to wear an orange vest and pick up trash along the side of the road.

State prisoners get to bury dead animals, pull weeds and "de-muck" outfall ditches too, Kelly. :D

Any thoughts about hanging a clothespin on the line with "Remove 25sep07" on it? That way all would be assured it should or should not be in there (until someone swaps pins, steals it, etc.).
09-25-2007 07:58 PM
Gary

Re: PSSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

"correctly altering lines in Peacock is a misdemeanor offense under state law."

Dang, that's harsh!

What do you get for in-correctly altering lines? ;-)
09-25-2007 09:24 PM
jeandiver

Re: PSSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSSP

Ranger West asked me to inform you the line to open water at Orange Grove has been removed by an instructor at Richard's request. There is a line and safety committee for PSSP Jim Fishback is the chairman, there is also a springs management team above the PSSP line committee who decides with park management how the lines are run, as stated in a previous post no one is allowed to add or take away line in the caves at PSSP except for the line committee, that of course does not include repairing a broken line that you should fix and report so a line committee member can check it out when they are in that area of the cave for safety reasons.
Thank You,
Janet

Thanks Janet,well said.
If I understand correctly altering lines in Peacock is a misdemeanor offense under state law. Which could mean you get to wear an orange vest and pick up trash along the side of the road.

EEK !!!
Does that also include distance arrow cleaning also? :o

Da Bean
09-26-2007 05:29 AM
FW

Re: PSSP

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeandiver

EEK !!!
Does that also include distance arrow cleaning also? :o

Da Bean

As inventor of the line arrow, I give anyone permission to remove any "Glory Markers" they run across. Glory Markers were put in without ranger permission anyway.

Just be sure they aren't survey markers!
09-26-2007 05:04 PM
Wizard

I never place nor remove glory markers.
I do however salute them if they have GI on them. :-D
09-26-2007 06:56 PM
Janet

PSSP

I talked to Richard today and he confirmed that is a misdemeaner to mess with the lines inside the cave system such as removing line, adding line or putting in T's.
Safe diving,
Janet
11-07-2007 02:43 PM
pittsburgh cave diver

line on orange

Mike and I were both in orange and saw the line and were there when the ranger asked if it was still there, and how long we have been here.
there was an instructor there with students and was asked by the ranger after he finished their drills would he remove it. so as of Sept 25th I know it was removed
BTW will be back in december....c-u then
Doug
11-07-2007 03:39 PM
jeandiver

Re: line on orange

Quote:

Originally Posted by pittsburgh cave diver

Mike and I were both in orange and saw the line and were there when the ranger asked if it was still there, and how long we have been here.
there was an instructor there with students and was asked by the ranger after he finished their drills would he remove it. so as of Sept 25th I know it was removed
BTW will be back in december....c-u then
Doug

Line no longer there btw :D
(as of 11/5/2007)

Da Beano
11-07-2007 04:07 PM
Walter Pickel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizard

I never place nor remove glory markers.
I do however salute them if they have GI on them. :-D

Not sure about GI but the good ones say TREY...I know where there is a nice bucket full of them.