I'm taking an advanced Nitrox/deco class in December and want to upgrade my computer to one that will allow me to switch mixtures while diving. I also need it to do Deco.
The easier to use the better.
Any suggestions ?
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I'm taking an advanced Nitrox/deco class in December and want to upgrade my computer to one that will allow me to switch mixtures while diving. I also need it to do Deco.
The easier to use the better.
Any suggestions ?
1. My favorite computer is my Nitek Plus. Nitrox plus deco. If you're over forty, either get the Duo instead, or learn to squint.
2. There are a lot of used Nitek 3s out there. Three mixes, and larger numbers.
3. With DRs new computer on the horizon, you can get a Nitek HE at a great price, either new or used. Seven mixes per dive, including trimix.
I own all three of the above (not a Duo, though), and all are very straightforward to use.
Bottom Timer- and start to memorize your stops and run times- use your wet notes for memory back up. If you start now, it wil be easier the further down the road you go.
My 2 cents
Check the "Resources" link above. Under "Gear" is a list of dive computers. FWIW, "The easier to use the better" should not be a consideration for a tech diver. I use a Hydrospace, with a Nitek3 as a backup. I also carry tables, and can use either of the above as a botom timer.
I use 2 DR Duos and am generally happy with them - easy to read and use. The software that DR provides for your PC and the downloader are lousy. You can find these various places for less than $400.
I have a Nitec Duo and have been very pleased with it. I would recommend it to anyone that is doing the type of diving that you are planning on doing.
I definitely like the Nitek Plus - two gas computer is great for most cave diving.
As you'll learn though, always cut yourself backup tables.
The big thing to think about though, is if you're going to continue on to mixed gas.
If you do, there are two ways to go. Make sure your dive computer can work in gauge mode, so that you have two bottom timers.
Or, get a computer right from the start that can handle mix in which case you are looking at the Nitek He (discontinued), the VR3 (the biggest player), and HS Explorer (smaller player), or the yet to be released Nitek X or Liquivision computers.
Easy choice, huh? :)
I have a Nitek He, NiTek PLus and a NiTek Duo ... Any of those 3 will work for you.
The He will work for trimix, the Duo has very large numbers and the plus has small numbers. The latter two can have 2 gases, the He is programmable up to 7 gases.
Thanks everyone for the info. It's been very helpful.
I use the VR3.
You can start at the bottom of the line & as you grow in your diving add the things you need (up to ten different gases).
You can switch gases on the fly which is great.
I also use a bottom timer & tables with this just in case Murphy shows up.
Mike M
I use the Nitek 3 myself. I don't do Trimix , so the 3 prog gases work just fine.
And I can still read the numbers ... !!!
That's the important thing For ME !!! :D
Dang, eyes getting older every day.
For the diving I do, the NiTek 3 fits my bill just fine.
Da (squinting) Beano
I use a VR3, with a Suunto Cobra in gauge mode and tables as a backup. The VR3 is up to the job for everything I need. I find it fairly simple (now that I've studied the manual :roll: ) and I like the flexibility it provides.
Just my opinion. I would never again buy VR3. Any product is only as good and use full, as the customer support that stands behind it. VR 3 has no such thing - as my experiences go. Considering this may save you a lot of aggravation.
What ever you choose, good luck with your new purchase - I hope it will serve you well.
I'll add a recommendation for a VR3. I've had mine since 2003 and it's not given me any trouble. User changeable battery is great, only difficulty I've had is last week, my eyes are starting to change again and I had a hard time reading it thru my prescription mask (on land I've been fighting with bifocals for the last year or so).
The Nitek plus is also very good.
The only other one I've had experience with is the Nitek Bridge 2, but it was a pain in the butt.
Mark
I had a problem with my VR3 when I first bought it 2-3 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Warren
E-mail the company in the UK & they had me ship it to them COD.
Got it back in about 7-8 days.
They e-mail me with apologies for any trouble.
Haven't had a problem with it since.
Sorry your experience wasn't as good Alex.
Mike M
Hey! no fair picking on the Bridge. I bought mine in 2004 and it had a couple problems but Dive Rite replaced it with the Bridge 2 which I'm still using after 12+ years. It's doing damn fine for its age.Quote:
Originally Posted by mfascuba
What I am looking for is a dive computer with worthy software for the download package. I'm still using my Bridge II and the software for it but I can't upgrade to something new until one with decent software becomes available. (Preferably decent software I can migrate my old electronic dive logs to.)
So far reefnet and the Sensus ( http://reefnet.ca/products/sensus/ ) is looking like the software package I'm gonna have to migrate to if my Bridge gives up on life.
You might want to proofread that. I'm guessing you bought it in 1994.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
Right :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
What? wait... this isn't 2017? :smt107
I only have experience with the Nitek HE. I like it alot and highly recommend it. If you buy a lower end computer with limited number of gasses you are going to possibly outgrow it in a few years and have to buy another. Been there, done that.
Yes, tables are nice. And you do have to have them as a backup to the computer. But it's REAL nice to be able to see the profile you just dove graphically on a desktop, esp in caves or tunnels you've never been prior. It's useful for dive planning purposes in the future. The cradle and hookup available for the He SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! Never got it to work. So I manually input the profile from the He into excel to create my graph.
The He can switch gases on the fly underwater. It starts automatically with your first keyed gas when you submerge. You can do air, nitrox, trimix, 50% deco gas, etc. Pretty much anything. It will handle 7 gasses.
I know you may say, I'll never need 7 gasses. True. But you can reprogram the same gas into the computer again in the sequence of the dive plan so you don't have to scroll through 2 gasses to get to the one you just switched to. For example - stage 32%, switch to trimix, then switch back to 32%, then to 50%, then to 100%. You can program 32%, 15/60, 32%, 50%, 100%. (5 gasses). Otherwise, when you switched back to 32% from trimix, you'd have to pass 50% & 100%. Then you risk passing 32% again.
So it's easier to program the gasses used in sequence (even if they are duplicates).
Another reason is you may have a stage that has a slightly different analyzed gas than you backgas. For example 30% in stage and 32% in backgas. Or a 14/57 in a stage and 15/61 in backgas. Granted, the deco may not change a whole lot. but it's nice to know exactly what the numbers are so you can decide how much MORE hanging you wanna do.
One thing I don't like about it is it beeps at you when you are getting close to deco limits. No DUHH. You're a decompression computer. I know I'm going into deco soon. I don't wanna be looking at my computer and not focusing on the dive unnecessarily because it's beeping at me telling me something I already know.
Also, at midnight, the computer reprograms its gasses to 100% O2 by default. So you can't program the mixes you are using until the day of the dive.
Also again, any deco gas you are planning to use at 1.6 ATA, I recommend keying in the O2 percent a few points less than what it is. For example, I always key in 95% O2 rather than 100%. Because the computer will ##### at you if you are at 21ft and then ##### at you if you hit 19 ft. So I give myself about a 2 ft depth variance to keep the damn computer from beeping at me again for something I already know.
Agree 100%. Especially if someone's excuse is to buy a computer as a training tool for a class. If you know how to use tables and custom tables made on a planner you will get better outcome from your training. My instructor even provided me w/bottomtimer and asked to leave VR3 in a car (no it was not a DIR instructor).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Thoms
I ended up w/ratio-method for leisure dives but i still keep my VR3 for some dives outside of ratio-deco method scope. VR3 is bulky, inconvenient device but there is a little true field-tested alternatives to it: Hydrospace Explorer (i had one and i got rid of it), Nitek 3, Nitek He, Hammerhead. They are bulky, capricious and expensive. Also DR and OMS came up recently with new multigas decompressimeters, i haven't heard any stories on it but i would like to hear it. I use to have Nitek Duo and it failed on me leaving with 20 mins deco on O2 schedule with only temperature reading. Otherwise it was working fine, i did almost 100 dives with Duo before i finally part with it (before and later when DR replaced the unit after the incident).
Long story short, i'm sorry now that i didn't listen to the advise given 4 yrs ago - use only watch and a bottom timer. I questioned that and went through multiple computers to learn from my own mistakes, and even have got bent on Oceanic once.
One of these is easy to read.
http://www.posc.com.hk/images/Vintag...on%20meter.jpg
the good old "Bends-a-Matic"
Hey Ollie.Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Didn't you post something a while back about a DIY dive computer you made that involved a live kitten inside a mason jar duct taped to your wrist?
How did the test runs go? Is PETA still camped out on your lawn? :-D
I currently use a Suunto Vytec as a primary. Never had any problems with it after 100+ dives.
I agree with Ary in the sense that my Duo (which I used only as a less expensive backup to the Vytec when I needed to) has been back to D.R. 3 times with less than 30 dives on it and I really don't trust it anymore as two of the 3 failures involved deco. The last time it failed I was heading into Little River and it started flickering and wouldn't stop.
I drove up to the headquarters in Lake City that day and dropped it off.
They mailed it back 2 weeks later with a $30.00 service charge.
Nothing against Dive Rite as they have good products overall but I've talked to several other people who had problems with the Duo but not the Niteks or any of their other computers.
Now I just use the Vytec, a dive watch and backup tables from a deco planner.
I'm still waiting for them to shrink the size and the cost of the VR3.
I am wondering how the new Dive Rite Nitek-X is going to compare?
I think the days of the DiveRite Duo flicker and die problems are over. They had a bad batch, but newer ones work great.
I have 3 (well, 2 really as one is on permaloan to my girlfriend as I hated her Aeris which had NDL's that scared the crap out of me!!). They compare well to VR3's - I have one of those - tending to give shorter deco's on the first dive and longer thereafter, but in the same ballpark.
The only sucky thing is the tendency on 20 ft stops to oscillate between yelling at you to go up (high PO2) and down (above the stop). Easily solved by faking the O2 to be 95%.
Very robust, pretty cheap, good deco profiles. Adding a deep stop on longer dives is probably a good idea - I always hang out at 70 ft and then 40 for about 2 mins each after a long Ginnie/Cow dive regardless of what the DR Duo says.
VR3 is great for trimix but not necessary for Ginnie/Cow etc dives under 140 or so. And yes their service is dicey - but it's still better IMHO than anything else out there.
It may not be as fake as you imagine, try putting an O2 analyzer on it, it will probably be close to 95%.Quote:
Originally Posted by aainslie
That's more likely to be analyzer error than gas error. If o2 really does contain 5% impurities, it's bad stuff!!! Analyzers often either show slight non-linearity, exacerbate errors based on using moist air for calibration or have a small intercept error that causes the reading on (fairly) pure o2 to be less (or more!!) than 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBrightGator
Well, the kitputer had a cat-a-strophic housing failure at about 120 feet. It was not good. The damn cat ignored my long hose, scratched me, bit me, and well , Michael Vick would have approved of the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cave Ranger
Its back to the drawing board.
You are supposed to calibrate the sensor to 100% using O2 - the O2 is pure enough to calibrate to. If you calibrate with one O2 bottle and another bottle reads off then you might have something. Other then that assume your sensor is off. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBrightGator
Cave Ranger, you mentioned using the Suunto Vytek. I've been thinking seriously about getting one myself (wrist unit only) and I need to know more about its performance in the field. You seem to like and trust yours a lot. Is anyone else using one? If so, I'd like to hear them chime in too. Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems as good a time as any to bring it up.
I bought one when they first came out several years ago. It was my first multi gas computer and I got the wrist mount version without the transducer for around $700.00. It's a 3 gas Nitrox/Air computer. It's seems to be a bit more conservative than the Duo even on it's least conservative setting. I've done over 100 dives on it including light tech dives between 135 and 190 fsw with it. It never failed or freaked out on me once. My buddy Ken got his at the same time and has had no trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Garrett
I bought the Duo strictly as a backup and it locked up on me the first time I tried to do a gas switch out at the Hole in the Wall cave off of Juno Beach. I sent it to D.R. and they sent me a new one and that one has been back twice. If I had just the Duo I would have gone to tables so it wasn't like I was in trouble but I know of divers who put 100% of their trust in 1 computer with no backups.
I'm not saying that the Vytec is the best and the Duo stinks. This is just my opinion but if you are asking me to endorse one over the other then based on my experience I would go with the Vytec or one of the other Suunto computers.
My only complaint with the Vytec is that the backlight could be brighter and they could have made it easier to change the battery.
Look.........I know I'm way behind you full cave & mixed gas divers, but one of the first things I'll be looking into acquiring prior to any advanced training is an O-2 & Mixed gas analylizer-! Just a suggestion here, referring to the many accidents using Tri-mix,Nitrox & O-2 during dives. With training comes knowledge & hopefully common sense-!
8)
Be safe guys
JE
yup..... (one day, until then i still use Bills)
$$$-
I've been using a Vytec ever since they came out. I have over 500 dives on my original unit. Never even replaced the batteries! My only complaint about it at all is that it does not do Trimix. I use a VR3 for that.
The Vytec is pretty much bullet proof, light weight, and the deco model works fine for me for non-trimix dives.
I noticed some of the Suunto computers had a crazy safety stop thing where you just did a long safety stop at 20' and when you get to 15' it stops you and starts a safety stop counter. Does the Vytec have that also or can you turn it off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Thornton
I'll admit I haven't really done my homework on this one, but if I wanted to use a Vytek with Helium (normoxic), couldn't I just go ahead and do deep stops according to V-planner, offgas the Helium, and then switch to the Vytek schedule for the longer stops? I think the Vytek uses RGBM as well and it seems to me the two would play well together if used conservatively. But then again maybe I should avoid all the extra b.s. and just spring for a real tri-mix computer since it looks like I'll need to eventually anyway. I just like all the good reports I've been hearing about the Vytek and didn't want to dismiss it without some fair consideration.
Just took my adv. Nitrox/Deco back in May. I've had my VR3 a little over a year now and had it for the class. My instructor (very very good instructor) didn't mind that I had my VR3 on but I still had to plan my deco tables and dive the tables. So a bottom timer/depth guage is all you'll need for the class. He gave me this example... He once had a student in a trimix class with a new high-end computer and there were 3 students and the instructor; they had planned tables and were diving tables but on the ascent the student with the new computer started watching his computer for deco stops rather than running the tables so 2 students were proceeding to shallower stops while 1 was performing deep stops and the instructor is stuck in the middle trying to take care of everyone. Bottom line, you and your buddy need to either run the same deco computers or run tables; and you won't need the deco computer for the class as it will be taught off of tables unless you have some prearrangement with your instructor.
-Chip
Well, the Nitrox/Deco thing is already behind me so I'm already familiar with running off tables, but some of the local profiles and run-times can get a little hard to plan precisely, at least in my experience. I just think it would be nice to have an extremely capable computer to help stay on track in real-time. The fellow I cave dive with most often uses an HS Explorer and he has had good luck with it, and I know at least two others who feel the same way. I'm thinking seriously about that one too. I'm not diving in "Helium territory" yet, but I know I'm going to have to soon if I'm going to see much new cave around here and I'm trying to avoid wasting money on something that won't be much use to me a year or so down the road. It's possible that the Vytek may fall into that category (sad to say). Also, good download software is important to me too since that's mostly how I log my dives. Maybe I'd better let it go for now and go pester somebody else for a while! :lol:
You could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Garrett
As a set of thumbrules for when I'm doing trimix and using my nitrox computers (Bheulmann) for backup I do the following:
Set O2% to O2% + 1/2 He%
do deepstops by table (-2atm from avg depth do 1 min stops up til the first longer stop)
from there if my tables were to be lost I generally find my nitrox computer would do the remainder of the deco if I double the depth of each stop the computer requires (shifting up 10' towards for later half of that stopdepth).
Usually I find these thumbrules put me only a few minutes off where I should be and gives me a feel-good computerized backup to diving tables.
If you just programmed normoxic and didn't modify the computer stops deeper I imagine the stops wouldn't match between your tables and computer til the 10'/20' stop. If you then stayed for the time for your computer to clear you would probably find that a much longer and more conservative deco. I think that was an issue many complained about diving the Nitek He and the VR3 at the same time was the amount of extra deco the He would require if you dragged it thru the VR3/table deepstops.
I don't know what kind of stop depths you might get off the Vytec RGBM implementation but I would guess you'd probably find the thumbrules above would fairly closely match even for the Vytec. (However if you computer will lock up on CNS O2 toxicity you won' be able to set to O2 + 1/2He without it erroring out - fortunately my Bridge just beeps and flashes the O2 bar but keeps going).
Not sure I understand this. I've dove with buddies diving VR3's and me on an He. I don't recall if I've been with anyone diving tables other than as backups. Could have. We've done mix dives to 287'. Although one might stay at a stop 10 ft deeper for a few extra minutes, it wasn't a problem. You could see them. No one ever was more than 10 ft higher at any given time. The deeper stops is more to control a SLOW ascent to the 50 ft and shallower range where you do longer stops. So there really shouldn't be that big a gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk335
Another issue you get into is people diving different mixes. We'd do a deep dive and someone would be comfortable with a more narcotic mix, but I would try to hit the best mix formula. And they'd prefer a third deco gas. I'd end up sitting at 10 ft for 20 minutes more than them. They'd sit on the surface and wait. We just had an understanding that we'd each follow our own schedules.
Yet another issue is lost gas. What if one diver had lost O2 or 32% or 50% or whatever, that person's gonna be in the water a LOT longer than you.
I've found that tables and computers are not that much off from each other, when I'd cut tables as backups. The benefit of the computer is adjusting for the actual dive profile, a dive cut real short, or extended due to problems.
I may have to look hard at doing that then. I just checked the prices on the HS trimix computers and got my feelings hurt! :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
I don't think there is a way to turn off the safety stop feature. Or if there is a way, I have never seen it. I don't mind too much however, because the way I look at it, I am just adding an extra 3 mins. on my last stop. I don't mind doing the extra time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary