WKPP Wakulla Exploration, 4 May 07

At Casey's request, forwarded from the WKPP team list:

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WKPP
In typical WKPP fashion the 2007 season has started off with a huge discovery in the Wakulla Springs Cave System. Picking up where we left off at the end of December, Jarrod and I pushed through 2,700ft of some of the smallest, restrictive passageway yet discovered in the Wakulla Springs system with scooters, safeties and drive bottles in tow while at the same time re-surveying the entire section of cave. Approaching EOL from 12/30, we dropped the safeties, switched to fresh drives and fresh scooters and tied in only to push through another 2,000ft of equally silty, small, twisting passageway with depths at each station averaging 285ft. Aside from a warped sense of sanity (a direct result of exploring this cave system for more than 17 years), the flow was there assuring us we were on the right track.

Around 12,000ft from the Wakulla Springs Basin, the cave begin to open up slowly; first 10x10 then 20x20 with swept clean floors and tube like features. At approximately 13,000ft we turned a corner bearing North-Northwest and the cave system blew wide open as the walls disappeared and the flow picked up. Floor depth was approximately 300ft and we followed the left wall as Jarrod finished the first of the Magnum reels we brought on the dive. I traded him another full Magnum reel for the empty one, clipped it off, noted the data at the station and waited for the shot as he headed off into the distance. I was already on my 3rd page of survey notes at that point with no sign this cave was about to let up. I was also in no rush to head back into the small stuff until it had at least 1-2 hours to blow clear. It was time to get to work as we headed into massive conduit bearing North, Northwest and East. Huge limestone features, swept floor, deep and identical in every way to the downstream Turner tunnel explored in June of 2006. This was the real deal after 17 years but how far until we hit the downstream line was the big question.

Disposing of the second reel was significantly easier compared to the first. Survey shots were averaging 200ft+ with one massive shot of 490ft. Following the left wall (reel in left hand) was the standard protocol but I kept looking right for another line in those spots where I could see the wall. We had a short discussion about possibly deploying a smaller #3 reel but felt we had pushed our luck already and it was not time to get greedy. She had been willing to give up enough for one day and the exit would be slow going. We would hit it next from the Turner side and quite possibly end decades of speculation not to mention accomplish one of the main goals of the WKPP.

The score:
6,270ft added
Distance from Wakulla – 16,000ft
Estimate to close the gap to EOL Turner - <5,000ft
Estimate to Turner Sink – 20,500ft
Estimate of traverse from Turner to Wakulla – 36,500ft

The profile:
400 minutes at 260ft average depth
Run Time – 1200 minutes

The team:
Setup to 6,500ft – Mark Garland and Jim Miller. Great to have Mark back in the water.

Safety re-stock – Scott Cox and Mark Messersmith

Surface – too many to name but the best team in the history of the project. Todd Leonard, Sonya Tittle, Hunter Swearingen and Dawn Kernagis kept the trains running on time and the guys took great care of the team and the equipment.

A complete report and details to follow at some point but with Turner scheduled for May 19 we have little time to enjoy the success. The conditions are perfect and the team is ready to connect these systems. You guys are the best.

Casey McKinlay
Project Director
Woodville Karst Plain Project

Thanks for the update!

tj

Please thank Casey for letting us know how life goes in a system that he and his group won't give the rest of us access to. How very generous of him. Who knows - perhaps he'll actually grace us with his own eminent presence one day, and post himself.

Awesome, thanks for the update!

Andrew,

You are welcome to check out the team info page for details about how to get involved with the project:

http://gue.com/Expeditions/WKPP/Contacts/index.html

The team welcomes anyone who is willing to follow team procedures. We have seen about a quarter of the current participating team sign on over the last year-- it's always welcome to see new faces during an exploration weekend.

While the one team was pushing the link to Leon Sinks last weekend, a second team was assisting hydrogeologists working with the Florida DEP to conduct a dye trace study to link additional systems in the WKP. It's worth noting that the WKPP played a part in connecting both Tallahassee's wastewater treatment plant and surface water runoff to the springs throughout Leon and Wakulla counties. It is the hard work of hundreds of volunteers (the wkpp, the friends of Wakulla Springs, etc.) that are leading to direct changes to groundwater management to ensure the protection of all the springs in the area.

Best,

Anthony

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Originally Posted by true

Andrew,

You are welcome to check out the team info page for details about how to get involved with the project:

http://gue.com/Expeditions/WKPP/Contacts/index.html

The team welcomes anyone who is willing to follow team procedures. We have seen about a quarter of the current participating team sign on over the last year-- it's always welcome to see new faces during an exploration weekend.

While the one team was pushing the link to Leon Sinks last weekend, a second team was assisting hydrogeologists working with the Florida DEP to conduct a dye trace study to link additional systems in the WKP. It's worth noting that the WKPP played a part in connecting both Tallahassee's wastewater treatment plant and surface water runoff to the springs throughout Leon and Wakulla counties. It is the hard work of hundreds of volunteers (the wkpp, the friends of Wakulla Springs, etc.) that are leading to direct changes to groundwater management to ensure the protection of all the springs in the area.

Best,

Anthony

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Anthony
Thanks for the update. Was the dye trace done a repeat of the Ames sink dye trace?

Now Andrew play nice. (do I sound like your mother ?) :-D

Sounds great if your DIR. ( not that there's anything wrong with that)

You certainly seem able to handle what they throw at you.

Give it a shot.

You get to dive Wakulla.

Mike M

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Anthony
Thanks for the update. Was the dye trace done a repeat of the Ames sink dye trace?

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No, not exactly. The plan (as I understand it) was to introduce the dye at Lost Creek, but there's not enough water in the creek to make that possible. The Ames project was looking for traces along the Leon Sinks system and had final sampling stations at Indian, Wakulla, and Sally Ward. Last week's release at Turner is being monitored for at various sites between Wakulla and the gulf.

-anthony

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Originally Posted by true

Andrew,

You are welcome to check out the team info page for details about how to get involved with the project:

http://gue.com/Expeditions/WKPP/Contacts/index.html

The team welcomes anyone who is willing to follow team procedures. We have seen about a quarter of the current participating team sign on over the last year-- it's always welcome to see new faces during an exploration weekend.

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Hi Anthony, Involvement seems to require gue cave 1 and gue cave 2. Is there any cross-validation possible for divers certified by other agencies? Bill

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Originally Posted by wingman

Hi Anthony, Involvement seems to require gue cave 1 and gue cave 2. Is there any cross-validation possible for divers certified by other agencies? Bill

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Bill, I don't know the answer-- best to go to the web page I linked to above and shoot an email to one of the member coordinators listed on the site.

Best,

Anthony

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Originally Posted by wingman

Hi Anthony, Involvement seems to require gue cave 1 and gue cave 2. Is there any cross-validation possible for divers certified by other agencies? Bill

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Let us know the result when you get an answer...


hint: You need GUE Training to even think of getting in the water.

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Originally Posted by Tegg

the result when you get an answer...


hint: You need GUE Training to even think of getting in the water.

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Joe-- you are correct. I should have checked in myself before posting. Here's the team position: during most of the 1990’s the WKPP accepted certifications from other agencies and then trained them in the specific protocols necessary to dive with the WKPP. This took a great deal of time and there was a lot of turnover within the project. The GUE cave curriculum covers the majority of the protocols necessary to dive with the WKPP allowing us to focus on the work instead. We do not allow crossovers.

I have a real problem with WKPP's control over these public resources, together with the complex relationship between them, GUE and Halcyon. Too many fo the same figures show up on the boards of all three. Reminds me in a way of Halliburton. And at the end of the day, GUE instructors (who charge a pretty hefty rate compared to other agencies) are the gatekeeper for us to get access to these resources.

Then when you DO pay them, buy their gear etc, you're expected to act as free labour carting their tanks around. This I don't really have a problem with - the people who do this know exactly what they're letting themselves in for. If that's what gets them off, so be it.

It's a complicated setup. GUE training is undeniably excellent. But it isn't SO good that they can treat anyone else with the level of disdain that they do.

The bad old days of GI3 are slowly falling away (I met Jarrod in a parking lot recently and he seemed like a really nice guy) - but that philosophy of disdainful exclusivity lives on. I wouldn't mind it so much if it wasn't for the way that they treat Wakulla, Indian etc as their little preserve, where gaining access requires a huge transfer of wealth from me to the GUE instructors, and Halcyon employees and shareholders.

It's a little like that tree we don't get to hear falling in the woods - if I can't ever see a cave, does it exist? An existential dilemma I leave for the cave philosophers of future - I just get irritated having to read their exclusionary little pieces of self-praise. In the interim, I'd prefer not to hear that Wakulla exists - it just irritates me.

Surely I'm not the only person who feels this way? And sorry, Mike - but seriously, isn't this another classic case where Casey can't even be bothered to come over to here and TDS and post himself? Who made him God?

OK, rant over.

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Originally Posted by aainslie

I have a real problem with WKPP's control over these public resources, together with the complex relationship between them, GUE and Halcyon. Too many fo the same figures show up on the boards of all three. Reminds me in a way of Halliburton. And at the end of the day, GUE instructors (who charge a pretty hefty rate compared to other agencies) are the gatekeeper for us to get access to these resources.


Surely I'm not the only person who feels this way? And sorry, Mike - but seriously, isn't this another classic case where Casey can't even be bothered to come over to here and TDS and post himself? Who made him God?

OK, rant over.

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Maybe Casey is busy?

The reality is that even if we don't like the current setup of the agreement with WKPP and the state, it is an agreement that is working currently.

I hate seeing that there are fake carrots hanging out there for those that truly just want to dive a nice big cave, but the reality is that even those who go through the jumps and hoops don't get to explore. They get to support the exploration, which may be all they want.

I would rather an exclusive team of divers have access to a site as long as they are ACTIVE in exploration and not sitting on a permit (which takes place also...). It may not be the "best scenario" to you and I, but the reality is that the cave IS being explored and possibly could be saved from destruction because of their actions.

Maybe one day when the powers that be at WKPP get bored with Wakulla they will relax on their requirements and possibly even work a deal similar to the access at other locations in the area. Maybe not...

This is where we come in... Those of us that are not WKPP/GUE divers that would like to have access to a state owned resource. The process is hard and tricky to get the state to open up access and not piss them off enough that they kill access altogether. I leave that kind of work to those who may be better at that kind of thing... Like those involved with Emerald as of late...

The reality is that there are plenty of beautiful caves with unexplored passages waiting for a diver to lay line. Until I can no longer find these opportunities, I am fine with them exploring and mapping that huge cave system under special permit, so long as they stay active and use the access that they have from the state.

Think of it this way... Many divers work hard to drag tanks for someone else 5000ft into a single cave system. Whereas you can work hard to drag your own tanks and explore your own list of cave(s) without the same hoops and financial investment. :)

He can't be that busy - he wrote it after all. It takes 30 seconds to post text once it's written. He simple feels it's beneath him to even visit this site.

OK guys. We "relaxed" rule #6, but is isn't *totally* gone. Lets not allow this thread to get too hostile.

WKPP proved to the state that their system works, and works safely. Now the rest of us have to prove the same thing to them, and getting hostile will *NOT* help the efforts of the multi-agency group that got Emerald and Indian open.

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Originally Posted by FW

OK guys. We "relaxed" rule #6, but is isn't *totally* gone. Lets not allow this thread to get too hostile.

WKPP proved to the state that their system works, and works safely. Now the rest of us have to prove the same thing to them, and getting hostile will *NOT* help the efforts of the multi-agency group that got Emerald and Indian open.

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OK, I'm done. Apologies if I came off a bit strong. And there's a difference between my opinions on the ethics and attitudes here, and the ahievement. I will say, it's one heluva achievement. That team is dedicated, and determined. Any 20 hour dive, 6 of which are active and deep, is pretty amazing. Adding 6000 feet of line in the process is incredible.

Hell, I'll be impressed with myself when I get to see EOL at Eagle's!!!

So very cool to see everyone playing nice and sharing ideas - way to go!!!

:-)

Joe, you hit nail on the head. But, Andrew did as well. They do great work in the pursuuits of the important projects. But the attitude they're bullet proof and the rest of the world is a strok e kinda hits people the wrong way. Go figure......... :roll:
There's nothing like a leasurely cave did unless the team GI clones come bouncing in and take over. The last time I got as POed was the time a few of us drove 5 hours to rock climb. There was a group of the rudest Ausies I've ever met. Out of 7 climbs, they had gear set on 6 routes. There were only 4 of them and they got all mad when we inquired if we could "borrow" one of the routes. Just so happened the 7th route had a hornets nest on it. After one of our group accidentally knocked it loose trying to set a rope, (oops) we thumbed the climb and made an quick exit.
Too bad you can't find a good hornets nest when you need one while cave diving. :wink:
I'll be nice now, sorry for the mini-rant. :oops:

Say what you want about GUE and DIR, but they have their "ducks in a row" .... I lost my nerve to continue cave diving ... I LOVE hearing what is going on in the cave diving world, but the risks out weighed the results for me ... I dove hard and fast for a couple of years (1996 - 1998) ... Seen a lot of cave in that sort period of time ... Maybe, that was my downfall ... Too much cave in a short period of time ... Anyway, it seems that George Irvine is out of the picture (and his harsh personality) ... So, is DIR and GUE getting their "fair shake"??? ... It seems to me that they have done a lot for safety and exploration in the sport ... Just my 1 1/2 cents :)

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Originally Posted by lowvoltguy

Anyway, it seems that George Irvine is out of the picture (and his harsh personality) ... So, is the DIR and GUE are getting their "fair shake"???

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I have met Casey, and Todd. They are both nice guys, and not at all like GI. They welcome new members, and don't really care what training you have had. The only issue is, you have to dive the same as the rest of the team, but it is unlikely you will, if you don't get some GUI training.

My assessment is: If you grew up being a team member, you will do well with WKPP. If you were/are a loner, you probably won't fit in.

The Tallahasse Democrat just posted a story that helps to contextualize how the WKPP's dives are part of a larger conservation effort to protect all of the springs in the area:

http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs...=2007705090325

If only the diving community could convince the reporters and editors of the world that they shouldn't substitute "air" or "oxygen" for "trimix" or "breathing gas" whenever they report on any diving topic... Otherwise, it's a nice write-up about what's going on in the area.

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Originally Posted by lowvoltguy

Say what you want about GUE and DIR, but they have their "ducks in a row" .... I lost my nerve to continue cave diving ... I LOVE hearing what is going on in the cave diving world, but the risks out weighed the results for me ... I dove hard and fast for a couple of years (1996 - 1998) ... Seen a lot of cave in that sort period of time ... Maybe, that was my downfall ... Too much cave in a short period of time ... Anyway, it seems that George Irvine is out of the picture (and his harsh personality) ... So, is DIR and GUE getting their "fair shake"??? ... It seems to me that they have done a lot for safety and exploration in the sport ... Just my 1 1/2 cents :)

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Whatever happened to GI3 anyway? I haven't heard much about him but I met some of his clones out at Jackson Blue once.

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Originally Posted by fixxervi6

Whatever happened to GI3 anyway?

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gavinscooters/

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Originally Posted by DeepSea

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Originally Posted by fixxervi6

Whatever happened to GI3 anyway?

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gavinscooters/

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Apparently you have to be a member of this Yahoo group to read anything.

GREAT job, KP!!!! I sure hope they connect the two systems soon.

I'm just as envious as everyone else. But at least someone is getting to do it. Besides, it keeps the validity of cave diving in the public eye. There could always be a side benefit that serves us all.