Lips & Keyhole Bypass

Hey All,

I'm wondering if I was looking in the wrong spot (story of my life)...

My last dive at Ginnie, we were playing around looking for shortcuts, bypasses, etc... In between the lips and the keyhole, on the left (as you're going in) is a tunnel with a line that goes in 2 different directions at a 90 degree angle. Going one way (towards the exit) takes you back to the lips (where you go up thru the hole on the edge of the ceiling and out thru the lips) but it was the other one direction that confused me.

The other direction (heading deeper into the cave) looked like it should be a way around the keyhole, but the line went about 20 feet or so from it's tie off and went under a rock ledge that would have been impossible to get through. What is the deal with that?

Was there a collapse there or something? Was that the biggest line trap in the world and I just missed the passageway? Does anyone even know the area I'm talking about?

Thanks!
Rick

The answers are yes. That area is not suitable for backmount. Very tight, sometimes very crumbly. Forget airshare. It's like an extended restriction in the middle of the tunnel. Before and after is okay. You have to make a nearly 90 degree turn to pass the apparent line trap. I personally couldn't do it in BM. It was scaryish the 1st, 2nd & 3rd time in SM. I was with a buddy and I hoped neither one of us would want to get out quickly. I was cool on the 4th trip. Some areas even further leftward trending and deeper into the cave, the rock is practically rotten. Pieces the size of your head will come off in your hand. Oops. :oops: I did that twice and decided it wasnt' worth the return. I don't mind tight, silty & short periods of zero viz but LARGE areas of rotten rock makes me claustrophic.

Angie

Thanks Angie!
Glad I didn't try to push on further...

:D

Angie... you must be married! All the good women are taken! :)

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

I'm wondering if I was looking in the wrong spot (story of my life)...

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haha, I think thats true for alot of us... how do you think all the sweet cave passage is found? :-D

You may be looking into one end of the "fuzzy bunny tunnel". I did it no-mount, and it was quite the squeeze. Dwain (formerly of Salvo, now with Oxycheq if I'm not mistaken) did it and took a CO2 hit that had him blind for part of the way out.

The passage is like a pile of rocks with a line run thru the middle of it. It's not backmount, not sidemount, just no mount. And there's not enough room to drag a second cylinder thru, so set up your bottle with an "H" valve for your push thru if ya go. I'll never tell anyone not to go where I've been, but I'm not going thru there again.

Mark

That's exactly what it looked like - with the line running under one big, huge rock with probably 8 inches to try to squeeze through. Couldn't see any other possible route to get through.

No way I'm even trying to get my fat a$$ in there...

Rick

Lips and Keyhole bypass are not suitable for backmounts? Since when?

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Originally Posted by caverkevin

Lips and Keyhole bypass are not suitable for backmounts? Since when?

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Depends on which parts/route you are talking about.

You can do it in backmount just fine (the lips and keyhole bypass). You have to swim straight under the rock, then raise up your torso and make a 90 deg. turn, pulling you legs in turn. If a 6'6" guy in double 121's can do it, anyone can do it.

The fuzzy bunny tunnel, on the other hand, is a no-mount tunnel (and from the line you're talking about, it's not the fuzzy bunny tunnel).

The lips and keyhole by-pass are as tight as I want to get into. My buddie and I both did it in BM. He turned 90 degrees to squeeze through, I did it after getting stuck a couple of times with a lot of wiggling. Not going back there anytime soon though! I like wide open spaces!

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Lips and Keyhole bypass are not suitable for backmounts? Since when?

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Can you airshare through that 90 degree squeeze? I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said I don't think it's suitable.

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Originally Posted by metaldector

The lips and keyhole by-pass are as tight as I want to get into. My buddie and I both did it in BM. He turned 90 degrees to squeeze through, I did it after getting stuck a couple of times with a lot of wiggling. Not going back there anytime soon though! I like wide open spaces!

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Fuzzy bunny is no mount. I've seen both ends of the Fuzzy Bunny tunnel but I have no desire to see the middle. I am simply too emotionally attached to my tanks. :-)

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by caverkevin

Lips and Keyhole bypass are not suitable for backmounts? Since when?

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Depends on which parts/route you are talking about.

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Exactly. Most bits are okay, but some are really not suitable for BM. If you are one of those that insists on the ability to airshare at all times, then that tunnel is not for you. If you don't feel the need to must be able to airshare at all times then you might as well go to diving independant tanks. :smt102

Metal:
I agree...I leave these "places" for those with more er , uh , "stamina" than I have ... :-D
I'm still having too much fun exploring the big tunnels , but that's just me. That's what I love about Cave diving...You have the BIG pushers , the TIGHT pushers (wink) and the LITTLE pushers , like me. Gads , I'm still having fun in the Catacombs. (erp)

Jeano Beano

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

Metal:
I agree...I leave these "places" for those with more er , uh , "stamina" than I have ... :-D
I'm still having too much fun exploring the big tunnels , but that's just me.

Jeano Beano

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

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Oh really?? I've always wanted to do the dark water tunnel. :-D

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Originally Posted by Angie Reim

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

Metal:
I agree...I leave these "places" for those with more er , uh , "stamina" than I have ... :-D
I'm still having too much fun exploring the big tunnels , but that's just me.

Jeano Beano

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

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Oh really?? I've always wanted to do the dark water tunnel. :-D

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You know what? ME TOO.
I've been told to come at it from the Crossover side. I heed my mentors well , you know... :-D
Someday we can do it.

Jeano Beano

The lips bypass, upon exiting the gallery, follow the downstream side of the lips breakdown to the far left edge and you will find some holes that drop you into a decent sized room. Follow the sand downhill to find the passage and the line. About halfway through it, at a 110 degree turn or so, on a hill is the FB jump. Don't go there. You will then come to the tee in a large opening that will lead you out to the room between the Lips and Keyhole. That first section from the downstream side of the lips to the upstream side can be done in BM if you are comfortable, but cave damage will result.
If you keep going at the tee, 'into' the system, you will come to the ledge you talked about. It is a ##### to get through in BM's but is doable. The line comes up out of a hole off the mainline upstream of the Bone Room jump.

If you are in BM's, you will likely damage the cave doing either of the bypasses. It is too pretty to be damaged. There is plenty of pretty BM tunnel outside of this to do.

Yup. :smt041

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

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Originally Posted by Angie Reim

Oh really?? I've always wanted to do the dark water tunnel. :-D

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You know what? ME TOO.
I've been told to come at it from the Crossover side. I heed my mentors well , you know... :-D
Someday we can do it.

Jeano Beano

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Jean,

I did the darwater tunnel and yes, it is better done from the crossover side (attempted it from the mainline side and it is just too silty to be fun) and it was a relatively easy thing (I say relatively because nothing in an overhead environment should ever be referred to as " easy", too much stuff can go wrong...)
Anyhow, do your reel fron the crossover and then at the end of darwater, at the mainline hang a left again back to crossover and pick up your reel on the way out to the peanut line, nice dive and you exit the shallow way. Have fun.

Dive safe,

Celia

PS Sorry for the hijack....back to the regular thread...

Cool!! Thanks Jay.

How do the restrictions being discussed compare to the Wormhole?

The Wormhole is tighter in general, but the one restriction on the bypass is
harder to get through. Ralph had to show me who to turn to get through it during my apprentice class.

Actually, the wormhole is not bad at all in backmount. There is video of Barney and JoeyP swimming it, somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, the wormhole is not bad at all in backmount. There is video of Barney and JoeyP swimming it, somewhere.

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Back mount is fine for the by pass. I think it's one of the better dives in front of the cave. Cristian had a video on his website, I think that is the one you were thinking about. www.neptunoworld.com

Not to thread jack but which way at what tee to get through the wormhole?
We tried it but punted after a couple of wrong turns.

Can you airshare through that 90 degree squeeze? I didn't say it couldn't be done. I said I don't think it's suitable.

This is perhaps where the 9' extended hose would be better than the 7' hose maybe? I know I have dove with some tall people before and I ate fins realy bad when we did air share drills and was wishing I had a 9' and was wondering the same thing about Madison Blue having to share air going thru the half hitch.

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Originally Posted by amphipod06

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

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Originally Posted by Angie Reim

Oh really?? I've always wanted to do the dark water tunnel. :-D

---

You know what? ME TOO.
I've been told to come at it from the Crossover side. I heed my mentors well , you know... :-D
Someday we can do it.

Jeano Beano

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Jean,

I did the darwater tunnel and yes, it is better done from the crossover side (attempted it from the mainline side and it is just too silty to be fun) and it was a relatively easy thing (I say relatively because nothing in an overhead environment should ever be referred to as " easy", too much stuff can go wrong...)
Anyhow, do your reel fron the crossover and then at the end of darwater, at the mainline hang a left again back to crossover and pick up your reel on the way out to the peanut line, nice dive and you exit the shallow way. Have fun.

Dive safe,

Celia

PS Sorry for the hijack....back to the regular thread...

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Thankies!!!

Ok , back to the regular thread !!!

Da Bean

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Originally Posted by muzz

Back mount is fine for the by pass.

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Sometimes I think it is square peg and round hole. I think the more the square peg enters the round hole it eventually becomes a square hole. I think we have to weigh the amount of attrition that is done to a passage in things like do I have lime stone marks on the tanks? is there pieces of limestone on my wing when I disassemble my gear? I've talked to many old timers about passages that are small,and they one thing that I commonly hear is about how a passage has become reamed out.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

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Originally Posted by muzz

Back mount is fine for the by pass.

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Sometimes I think it is square peg and round hole. I think the more the square peg enters the round hole it eventually becomes a square hole. I think we have to weigh the amount of attrition that is done to a passage in things like do I have lime stone marks on the tanks? is there pieces of limestone on my wing when I disassemble my gear? I've talked to many old timers about passages that are small,and they one thing that I commonly hear is about how a passage has become reamed out.

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Yes, I remember when the half-hitch at Madison Blue was tight, and both entrances to Devil's Eye/Ear.

I was told how tight Rocky Horror used to be real tight. I've experienced that as well as in the lips at Peacock.

And the far end of the roller coaster in Devil's used to be a careful swim thru. Now it's a "trench" scooterers barely need to slow down to pass thru.

I think the bypass is still a case that many divers can't swim down the main passage in devils without banging off the ceiling and floor. I know that the bypass can be done by a skilled diver in backmount or by one in sidemount. I wouldn't recommend anyone that they should be in those passages until I have actually seen them diving regardless of their gear configuration.

If you can't do it without banging or scraping the rocks or if you scrape the bottom or fin badly and cause silting then you don't belong there. If you don't know if you can do it without @#$%ing it up stick to larger passages until you are skilled enough.

Edit by FW. Remember rule #3

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Originally Posted by Wizard

Not to thread jack but which way at what tee to get through the wormhole?
We tried it but punted after a couple of wrong turns.

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Start at the entrance just past the hill 400 jump, use the top entrance.
A little ways in take the "jump" (all 12 inches if it) to the left, then left at the next T.

The othe way is pass the jump, left at the first T, Then right at the last T, but there is another small tunnel that is "sometimes" tied in about 50' before the last T. Is that confusing enough?

Fair warning, when the line ends you cannot see the end of the tunnel. You have to turn a couple of tight corners before you see the room at the foot of Hill 400.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't have a map to look at right before the dive.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

Not to thread jack but which way at what tee to get through the wormhole?
We tried it but punted after a couple of wrong turns.

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Just like HD said. I would recommend going with someone who has been before, or at the least, go to the bottom of Hill 400 and and find the upstream entrance and swim in till you find the line ( and run a jump reel from Hill 400 to that end end of the line) and go back and swim in from the downstream entrance. As he said, it is a few nasty turns from the end of the line until you pop out at hill 400.

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Originally Posted by muzz

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Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, the wormhole is not bad at all in backmount. There is video of Barney and JoeyP swimming it, somewhere.

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Back mount is fine for the by pass. I think it's one of the better dives in front of the cave. Cristian had a video on his website, I think that is the one you were thinking about. www.neptunoworld.com

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Muzz, I believe video 2 is the wormhole swim. I could not find a bypass one there.

http://www.neptunoworld.com/caves/videos/

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

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Originally Posted by amphipod06

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Originally Posted by jeandiver

P.S. Angie: You and Cindy are definately cut from the same cloth , so to speak. She keeps mentioning Dark Water and I shudder... ( lol )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Angie Reim

Oh really?? I've always wanted to do the dark water tunnel. :-D

---

You know what? ME TOO.
I've been told to come at it from the Crossover side. I heed my mentors well , you know... :-D
Someday we can do it.

Jeano Beano

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Jean,

I did the darwater tunnel and yes, it is better done from the crossover side (attempted it from the mainline side and it is just too silty to be fun) and it was a relatively easy thing (I say relatively because nothing in an overhead environment should ever be referred to as " easy", too much stuff can go wrong...)
Anyhow, do your reel fron the crossover and then at the end of darwater, at the mainline hang a left again back to crossover and pick up your reel on the way out to the peanut line, nice dive and you exit the shallow way. Have fun.

Dive safe,

Celia

PS Sorry for the hijack....back to the regular thread...

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Thankies!!!

Ok , back to the regular thread !!!

Da Bean

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HEY - Count me in!!!

I want to go with you guys, too.

I would even volunteer to take last place as I know I will have NO viz...it is good practice for diving with Cindy in some of her dark water spots...

:-D

As for the Bypass areas - I have always really liked the lips and keyhole bypasses. It became a habit to take them regularly.

Sadly, back when I didn't always think things through, I used to dive that area solo BM but without Al. I am happy to say I know better now and did not turn up being a very bad example. There but for the grace of God...

I haven't tried to take Al back there...that should make for an interesting dive.

:-)

3 divers [especially first time] through the dark water tunnel would be a very bad idea.
I would be willing to take any three of you on that dive, but one at a time.

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Originally Posted by mmcauliffe

3 divers [especially first time] through the dark water tunnel would be a very bad idea.
I would be willing to take any three of you on that dive, but one at a time.

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Geez...just burst my bubble, Mike! I was feeling very brave whilst in internet diver mode.

I shall defer to your more experienced judgement on the matter but will also definitely hold you to your offer...I will be back up in mid April sometime!

:-)

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Originally Posted by mmcauliffe

3 divers [especially first time] through the dark water tunnel would be a very bad idea.
I would be willing to take any three of you on that dive, but one at a time.

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I'll keep that in mind! :D

Ya'll make your plans without me. I'm out of the water for about 6 months. See ya'll next season hopefully before the floods.

Angie

Sounds like some Tennesse caves ( except better vis.)

Mike M

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Originally Posted by Starryskies

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Originally Posted by mmcauliffe

3 divers [especially first time] through the dark water tunnel would be a very bad idea.
I would be willing to take any three of you on that dive, but one at a time.

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Geez...just burst my bubble, Mike! I was feeling very brave whilst in internet diver mode.

I shall defer to your more experienced judgement on the matter but will also definitely hold you to your offer...I will be back up in mid April sometime!

:-)

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Mike:
OK , you got a deal.
Take Pat first though ... :-D

Jean da Bean