Has anyone done it recently? Based on videos, it looks like it is doable in BM. Any tips?
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Has anyone done it recently? Based on videos, it looks like it is doable in BM. Any tips?
i'd avoid the jump left to the west passage, it's a low silty mess. its doable in BM, but there's a rock on rock restriction near the north end that requires a bit of Tetris to get through. bring a long jump for the north exit, it's cut back pretty far.
Gotcha, so from Hill 400:
- Right jump to Wormhole
- Stay right (East), as going counterclockwise
- Right at the 3rd T to go North (not sure if the first two are jumps)
https://www.cavediver.net/forum/imag...AAAElFTkSuQmCC
It's been many years since I've dove the wormhole, so take my comment with a grain of salt. Not trying to be a wet noodle, but we were all required to be taught cave conservation as part of our curriculum. One of my early instructor's comments was if you've heard somewhere is a sm tunnel but "maybe"you can squeeze through in bm, come back another day in the proper configuration so you don't beat the cave to sh-t. There's a reason there are a few sm tunnels that are now backmountable.
Again, it's been 10 years probably since I've been in the wormhole, but back then I wouldn't have wanted to do it in anything but sm so I wasn't scraping up the cave. Maybe it's been beaten up enough to be easily bm now.
yeah, like everything in the front of Ginnie, its beat to hell. By 'tetris' i mean you gotta rotate a bit sideways to do it cleanly in BM. Front half of wormhole is more vertical crack, and you'd have a bottle in front if doing it in SM. Pros and Cons.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Many time I've been in there and got to the rock on rock and just turned around because it's not worth futzing with. Saves going back and cleaning up the circuit afterwards as well.
Thank you for the replies. That is exactly the information I needed. On my map Wormhole is marked with "X" which means "restriction." Sidemounted restrictions are "XX." Not sure if my map is up-to-date.
I get it. I was playing devil?s advocate. I have always been told wormhole was really a sm tunnel by everyone I know. I actually dont know anyone who?s done it in bmQuote:
Originally Posted by mr_v
I remember it from back in the day on sm. To me it was definitely a sm preferable dive. But with wear and tear things open up
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Here's some more thoughts on doing this dive. First of all, yes, it is doable in BM. Now having said that, proper trim, buoyancy control, and so on is vitally important in this area. If you're a newly certified FC diver with only 30-40 dives after cert, then go practice somewhere else. I helped lay some of the line in the Wormhole back in 1992 and believe me, the passage was a LOT smaller in those days. Even then we did it in backmount. As you probably know from looking at a map, this is a " loop" dive. By that I mean you start and finish on the Hill 400 line. One thing to keep in mind is that there is a couple of T's on the Wormhole line. Unfortunately divers tend to change lines so be very cautious on your first dive there. In my opinion, it's probably best to do this dive with someone who has been there several times.
Good info. It definitely looks bigger now than even 10 years ago when I look at peoples videos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Funny enough most of the people who told me highly recommended in sm were older divers who were diving it in the mid to late 90s. So seems to somewhat fit with the size you saw in the 90s. I was never told absolutely not doable in bm. Just sm was basically always the recommendation.
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Back in the day, that was probably good info to pass along to new divers. As you and AlexL have both mentioned, over time the popular passages grow in size due to the number of divers going there. The Catacombs are a good example of this. I never would have imagined, back in the day, that they would look like they do today. Now having said that, the Catacombs are somewhat forgiving, the Wormhole is "not"Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Brent, thank you very much for the info. Will postpone the dive until later, as no one in the team has been there yet.
Probably a good idea. Here's a thought for you. There's lot of good divers here locally who could act as a mentor/guide for this dive. Another good point to make here is that a mentor can give you an honest evaluation of your skills and determine if you're ready to do this dive. No criticism met here. Just offering some opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_v
Yeah absolutely. I am in Cave Country at least two weekends a month and already found people who could help.
The Wormhole used to be tighter and really not backmountable,but with repeated pushing through it has got reamed out and beaten up. If you have sidemount, do and enjoy, if not, then watch the videos and save a cave. Other places used to be tighter- Peanut restriction, sandslide P3, Rocky Horror, Peanut tunnel to name a few, they just got reamed out with excessive traffic, and technique.
I can't imagine Rocky Horror in bm, but it may be different since the last time I was in there.
doable if you don't call the dive and need to turn around. EekQuote:
Originally Posted by Pullnglide
It is interesting you've mentioned Rocky Horror. Porter's Delight was on my list and I looked at Rocky Horror, too.
Here is the scoop, I want to dive more technical but not SM tunnels. Cave preservation is big on my list, so anything that requires using myself as a boring bit is out of the question. Wormhole was on the list as it is just that close to the entry.
Potter's delight. Also previously a belly to back tight clay section that you could drive a truck through today. I was really pissed when I saw a team enter the passage with scooters roaring. Never again will it be what it was.
Ah, sorry, I misspelled.
I thought scooters were not allowed at Madison... Has that changed?
No, it hasn't but a lot of diving was done before the state acquired it. It was undeveloped land until the mid nineties when it was developed commercially and the in the early 2000s ( if I remember correctly), it was acquired by the state. There was even a time before Godzilla took up residence.
As Terry mentioned, there has been lots of changes over the decades and yes you could take a scooter thru those passages in order to get up to the courtyard. If you want to see how small Potters looked back in the day, get a VHS copy of the videos made by Diver Don Landis. Those tapes were made back in the late 80's time frame and the swim thru in Rocky/Potters is on the Madison video. He narrates the video and he has a model ( forget her name ) swim thru the passage. She was in doubles BTW. A very good video that will show you how much has changed over the 3ish decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry D
I think this is the video Brent mentioned on Youtube
https://youtu.be/RK3dxNlcF9Y?si=RKS8QSydXPuOJsNR
those horizontal and vertical sync jitters immediately took me back memory lane 25+ years ago, to the era of time base correctors, linear editors, and 3/4 umatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknRandy
Big thing I noticed was a lot more Perc / Goethite on the dunes.
Entrance to Rocky was at 1:53:00, and again through at 2:26:00. They hit 'The Well' around 2:36:25, and the "100' bailout drop" at 2:37:00 There was noticeably more protrusions and bottom silt on that video.
Unfortunately this video does not show how small and silty Potters is. The diver, Wendy Short, was one of our premier female divers of the early 90's and she did an excellent job maintaining trim and so on with all the stuff she had to carry on this dive. Anybody notice the old Dive Rite Brick she was wearing? That light was around 10 pounds negative in the water. The huge video light was a product of that era as well. Most of this footage appeared to be in the Mount Offshoot which is the jump off the Gold Line at around 1200 feet leading into Rocky/Potters. Notice Wendy was wearing double AL80's? She was on one of my Mexico trips. I can vouch for her SAC rate!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknRandy
Remember the Diver Don Landis videos well, and it is interesting seeing Madison without all the infrastructure, which could make it challenging to exit after a dive. The Brick was a beast, you could run over it with a train, and it would derail the train. It is pretty cool to see the halfhitch before the "collapse " that happened, which appears around 29 minutes on the video. I will give Wendy Short credit, she is performing a great flutter kick which seems to be a lost art.
My first dives in Madison were circa 1973. At that time the locals used it as a garbage dump and it was full of garbage and a burned out car. Crawling out up the bank was challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Loved his videos. I would watch before diving then have some expectation of what to expect
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Do any of you guys know if the "depth gauge" is still on the line? I believe Don Landis said Henry Nicholson placed it there sometime in the 80's. I could get to the depth gauge and maybe a bit beyond before hitting thirds on 104's. That was a really big dive back in the day!
Yes it is. It's been joined by a number of flooded pressure gauges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Took your advice and did Wormhole in sidemount. I am on a bigger side and SM was perfect. No issues. BM setup like my Meg would not have made the dive less enjoyable.