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I am a little shocked, that there were no posts here. Just heard 2nd hand about a possible rebreather death at P1 (2nd hand from friends cavern diving there, who also did cpr on a diver). They called their cavern instructor, who then texted me. That is all I know. Admins, please move if I chose the wrong forum to post.
Not releasing the name at this time
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personally I don't even want to know who it was... but what should I do right the next time I dive P1... I personally don't think much when I hear about a death at a cave like Eagles Nest because I NEVER plan on diving there... but P1?? I have more dives there than any other cave... what was done that I can avoid doing in the future... or what can I do differently that will keep me breathing. Of course condolences to all involved including the rescuers; but now it is about improving the process.
After more conversation I think the BIGGEST thing that is starting to stand out to me is the lack of CPR training in the cave diving community... maybe that should be a new additional requirement before starting cave/cavern training. I know at least two of the cavern divers have reached out to their instructor for that training because of this event.
Fully agree. Not just for divers - it is a good skill to have. I grew up in a slightly different environment, but first aid was taught in high school and was a requirement for being a student in a good standing.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
I know nothing about this incident, but I have had first aid training with CPR (it was required for my Rescue Diver training, and I've allowed my certification to lapse). It is worth being aware that the efficacy of CPR is considerably lower that most people know, and the farther away you are from professional medical help (e.g. at a dive site in the woods or on a dive boat) the worse the odds of a positive outcome are. Good skill to have? Probably. But no one should beat themselves up for not knowing it -- even administered by a trained bystander in the field, the odds of a positive outcome are minimal.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...n-enduring-cpr
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychDiver
Eh… CPR for the elderly doesn’t tend to have great outcomes, but for younger people it’s a very different conversation.
Go learn CPR. There’s no excuse for not knowing it in 2025.
10000% YES!!!! I mean how many people realize there is an AED at Peacock?? Probably needs to be closer to the water. BETTING it didn't even get pulled during this event.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
You have a good point. AED is incredibly important in emergency situations. As a nurse I am trained and have been in many life or death emergency situations. I hope to never need to use these skills when I am enjoying my hobby and hope that doesn?t come out wrong. One thing I will be doing is paying closer attention to emergency equipment location when I head to these locations. One thing that is key to the best outcomes as a nurse is being aware of resources, knowing location of equipment and preparing for potential emergencies. Sadly, I?ve never even considered an AED in peacock or any other location when I go diving. I?m so stoked to get underwater I?ve never considered AEDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
That?s what I?m taking from this conversation. Create a plan. I?ve always felt better even in the event of a loss, when I was prepared and performed well in the emergency. It?s never easy knowing someone didn?t make it, but there is nothing worse than managing the feelings following an unorganized response to an emergency.
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I'm not sure I should even post this but I've heard second hand (from a fairly reliable source) that the AED at Peacock was used but the batteries were dead. Apparently it was not maintained. Again, this is ONLY a rumor.
Can anyone share a name of our friend. I have a good suspicion but will refrain until verified. Ken
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Ooof. I hope not. Obviously not good for the victim in this case potentially(which is clearly the most important point) but also sets the park up for a lawsuit by the family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry D
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Apparently the low battery warning has been sounding recently, too....Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Edit: I see someone beat me to it - but yes, I've also heard that as well. Incredibly bad timing for it to go dead, if true.
And to add, CPR is indeed rarely effective without adding in the difficulty of removing scuba gear (from yourself or the victim), getting them out of the water, and starting to provide compressions (not to mention how exhausting it is to do quality compressions for any real length of time).
I think the chaos of the situation is what drove the cavern divers to pursue additional training when they get back home (they were tennessee divers).Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Feet Under
I am VERY sad to even hear it hinted that the AED was not functional.
However, I AM LOVING the direction this post has gone.
I just checked with my friend the cavern diver, he said the AED was used and that it worked as it should.
I cant find any news articles/etc on this. Has the name been released yet?
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Whitrzac
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So who was it. I can not find any info
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Never noticed an AED at Peacock. At the very minimum, it should be included in all safety briefings. Where is it stationed? Could anyone please share a photo so that we know what to look for?
The AED at P1 is in front of the changing rooms, mounted on the wall facing the doorway as you go in.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I?ve learned my lesson about sharing details on cdf with you guys. The name has been released. Likely not someone you know. But due to the hate mail and negative commentary I received in the past for sharing details on things such as the Ginnie death (when asked to post by a recovery team diver) I 100% wont be the one to name names or give details on cdf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
Several jackasses here even tracked down my wife to get my contact info back in the day because they didnt like me sharing what I was aksed to share about a death. That goes well beyond normal behavior and I?m not opening myself or my wife up to the headache again.
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Understand! I remember that.
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Thanks. Unfortunately once dummies start tracking down my family so they can get my contact info I have to draw a line. Glad you understand its nothing personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
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I was at P1 that day, along with my buddies; we were diving the cave at OG when word went out there that as an unconscious diver at P1.
I don’t want to add too much, but for the sake of clarifying some confusion, I will say that one of us stayed behind at OG to direct EMT and first responders, the others went down to P1 to render aid. We are all first aid and CPR trained; CPR was administered continuously to the diver until the ambulance arrived and paramedics took over. Their AED indicated that a shock was NOT advised. Oxygen was not being administered when we first arrived at P1; one of us is an instructor and had a DAN 02 kit, and put the diver on oxygen. The paramedics continued to work on the diver until it became apparent that he was not going to make it. My heart goes out to him and his family; I hope it is some little comfort to them to know that he was not alone and was surrounded by folks from the cave community that came together to give what help they could. A terrible terrible day.
SO... all my friend could confirm was that an AED was in use... is it possible that it was the EMT AED? and not the one at the park?Quote:
Originally Posted by rilelen
It might have been on the person but if a shock is not indicated it won?t shock. Still leave it in place. Does it really matter who it belonged to?
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Yeah doesnt really matter. Clearly emt?s were involved and a death still occurred. More important questions still remain such as possibility of a medical issue vs gas issue vs rebreather issue. From the bits and pieces I?ve received it sounds medical, but that is 100% speculation and shouldnt be thought of as factQuote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
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I know nothing at all about this particular case, but for general information:
Defibrillation is used to treat ventricular fibrillation and pulseless ventricular tachycardia. Cardiac arrest from hypoxia, whether from drowning, from a hypoxic loop on a rebreather, or from CO poisoning, tends to present as asystole (flatline) or PEA - Pulseless Electrical Activity, where the intrinsic pacemaker system of the heart is generating an electrochemical stimulus (visible on the EKG) but the heart muscle is unable to respond and contract to generate a pulse. Outcomes tend to be poor - the brain is more sensitive to hypoxia than the heart, so by the time someone is hypoxic enough to cause cardiac arrest, the brain is likely too hypoxic to yield a good neurological outcome.
But it's always worth starting CPR. The patient may have arrested from a primary cardiac event into ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia, and not be that hypoxic. At the time these decisions need to be made, we don't usually have much information, so we err on the side of starting resuscitation. Sometimes the patient will surprise you. Of the cardiac arrest patients I've had that walked out of the hospital neurologically intact (a small percentage of well over a thousand cardiac arrests both prehospital and in-hospital) the common denominator has been early and effective CPR and early defibrillation when in a shockable rhythm.
Mike
There was suggestion that the one posted at the p1 changing room had battery issues... so it matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
If a dead battery resulted in a delay of care, that’s not good.
I was at WSPSSP this week and both AED's had the "AED GOOD" Green flag showing on the upper right corner of the unit.
Thank you. I've never used the changing rooms, so didn't have a clue there was an AED there. Live and learn!Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
So... do we have an accident report?
Don?t even have a name!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_v
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Feel free to post the identities of these fine men so that they can get a taste of their own harassment medicine.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
I?m good. I?ve had enough cave country drama. That doesnt start to get into the time a dive shop owner decided to spam my business with negative reviews via their personal account and recruiting their clients to do the same all because I stated in a thread that I didnt like their dive shop due to several problems. I wont go into those problems here because it?ll just start it all over again. This person even was such a child that they took my photos from my business webpage and posted them as banners on their fb while ranting about how awful I was. Mind you the complaints and comments about said dive shop were shared by other people in the same thread. This person even called my business to tell my staff how awful I am (because they really care what a random person thinks).Quote:
Originally Posted by oceancurrent
There are some exceptionally childish morons in cave country. And to be clear, its not just dudes doing this sh-t. You can throw in a female instructor as well as another woman who works in the industry but isnt an instructor. Or even a cave diver. But yes most of it was tiny-brained dudes.
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Sometimes, dealing with bullies is worth the bail money.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
One never knows when a person is at the end of their rope. Imagine being the bully (like what you endured, and I don’t know the situation or any of the players) when they find out they’ve encountered someone at the end of that rope.
I am always happy to have a very direct, in-person conversation with people who act that way. I generally dont back down unless I?m in the wrong. Which then I will apologize. In these particular situations I addressed it but it went nowhere. So I choose to just not rehash the details and deal with the bs all over again. I?ve got a busy life that doesnt need more morons in it. But I agree with you. I dont put up with peoples bs and will call them on it. But I also prefer to do it in person but you know how the internet toughguys are. They would never sit down to have a frank discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlyte27
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Have you ever looked in the mirror
I never do, there is a old man looking back at me. Not sure where he came from, but he is scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by edl
I wonder the same thing. 🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
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Yep. Thank you for your concern and the reminder to just not post since its not worth the headache or time.Quote:
Originally Posted by edl
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so other than the normal idiotic small penis cave country drama...is there any information about this fatality?
Sounds like aed claims weren't true. It's nice to know they are currently showing active and ready.
I'd be surprised if cardiac events while diving are survivable, sure aeds and cpr are solid tactics, but it seems like an event while diving isn't the happy path for their use...but they'd be super valuable for someone going down before or after the dive itself.
I totally get that, wife doesn't understand why I cover mirrors ;)Quote:
I never do, there is a old man looking back at me. Not sure where he came from, but he is scary.
The $500 bond for battery is cheap enough that some may consider it worth it, depending on how poorly they're treated by another. Can't say that I'd blame them, either. *shrugs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlyte27
That said, I've noticed over the last decade that quite a large percentage of the cave diving community has exceptionally poor interpersonal skills... and the drama rdvvet is referring to is a prime example of that.
The NSS-CDS Cave Accident Analysis Committee has information on the incident including inspection of the rebreather and eyewitness reports. The committee is simply waiting for the Sheriff's office to close the case and for the final autopsy report before posting an incident report. In the meantime, please be safe everyone and keep the victim's family, especially his son who was diving with him, in your thoughts and prayers.
Thank you
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I’ve paid that bond a half dozen times. Paid the lawyer half as many of those times. I still say it’s worth it. But, I’m getting older, wiser and less grumpier (is that a word). I used to keep bail money in a sock drawer just to be safe. I told a good friend of mine recently that I had access to enough money to bail me out of almost anything. He had a very good point when he said, “they don’t give bail to guys with airplanes and passports”Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Feet Under
Doh!
I hadn’t considered that. Thankfully, most bullies don’t try to bully me.
And I really have no idea what happened with Rddvet. But I’m starting to be intrigued. I’ll likely forget about it though. Doubt it’s worth anyone’s time.
Its not. Just dumb people doing dumb stuff because theyre idiots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlyte27
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This thread reminds me that I still have a metric boatload of money tied up as a retainer for my criminal lawyer. Perhaps I have settled down enough now to be able to take those funds back????
This is good to hear, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by debersole
I don?t think you ever get them back. Use it or lose it, has been my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsix36
My lawyer is a drinking (back when I still drank) buddy that just happens to be another biker among those I rode with down south. I have faith that I will get it back but do not really care that much about it obviously since I had forgotten about it til now
OK, but how about releasing the long overdue report on the 4/12/2022 Ginnie death in the meanwhile? Recap: The community was assured it would be released "within a month"... more than a year ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by debersole
If any information is ever released about this death, I'll be the one who needs CPR and O2. There's more excuses than can be numbered in why no information can be released. The small penis society in cave country decrees it to be like this, and I don't think it will ever change.Quote:
Originally Posted by oceancurrent
Call Gilchrist County S.O. and make a FOIA request for the death investigation report, providing the investigation is closed. Paper copies are fairly cheap (body camera and other video footage is where you have to pay more money for the redactions and processing), and it will include any testimony/statement provided by anybody involved (including witnesses). It's not hard... but for some reason, nobody ever wants to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudhole
I feel like the “community” is getting on just fine without the details.Quote:
Originally Posted by oceancurrent
Bunch of badasses in here with lawyers and tails of physical altercations��
My lawyer can beat up your lawyer.
Thats a good start. Can they push each other off a cliff tooQuote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
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I have four lawyers. I love them all dearly. lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
But, they’re all quite wimpy. Please don’t beat up my lawyers.
I used to be an angry thug. But I’m feeling much better now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furd Tergusun
Pleased don't beat up mine, either. I'm married to her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superlyte27
:rollguy:rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sludge
So your one costs more than all four of mine put together. lol :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge
NSS-CDS report was released https://nsscds.org/wp-content/upload...2025.02.01.pdf
Im surprised this didnt make the forum sooner. I think its been posted for a week. I assumed it was already up gere but didnt bother to check. I?m interested to hear which unit it was. The report I saw didnt specifically say. Im not sure which units use spacers other than the meg and the fathom. Maybe xccr?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexL
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As with most CCR incidents, totally preventable. You have to be totally anal in checks and procedures with any unit no matter how much time or number of dives on the unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Meg, XCCR, Fathom use spacers. The unit in question was a Meg, I believe.
That was my assumptionQuote:
Originally Posted by mr_v
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