Ginnie Gold Line Path Question

Morning cavers. Question. Can someone help me accurately show the current gold line path back to the mud flats? We dived yesterday with the intention of doing a tee to the bone room / white room. We either missed the tee or our understanding of where the gold line is was not correct. We did pass the tee to hill 400, which was easily identifiable. I attached a markup of what I thought the current gold line path is and where we turned our dive. By the way, the conditions looked great yesterday. Yes, it was a PITA getting out with all the people in there, but getting in, the place was pretty dead. Only one other set of divers there.

There are no Ts on the gold line at ginnie.

I don't know if the jump for the mud tunnel is marked.

Your positioning of the gold is correct. After you go through the keyhole, you end up dropping down to a lower area. Eventually it pops up into a wider area and to your right there is what is called the Park Bench. You need to Jump Right to get on the line to the big room.

Alternatively, if you improve your breathing rate / bring more gas, you can continue where you turned and reach the formation called the Maple Leaf and Jump right into the big room region.

Also, at p.520, it is not a T, the jump North bound takes you to the Hill 400 line.

Enjoy getting familiarized with the system ;)

I may be using the term "T" incorrectly. I assumed when I saw a double line marker, (both pointing the same exit direction), that indicated a place that you could "T" off the gold line and if I continued along that path, I would eventually encounter a "jump" line. If I never tie into that jump line, I would still consider it a TEE :). We're still slowly progressing with our experience, so for the time being, we will only do a single tie off and not jump onto another line, for now ;-)

A "T" is a place where the single line you on literally splits into two different lines at a "T" intersection (like the letter shape). The gold line "T" at Little River is a great example. You swim in along the single gold line, which then intersects with a gold line to the left, and a gold line to the right. A big big arrow points to the exit. There are also multiple gold line Ts in JB. Usually gold line Tee's into gold line, and white line Tee's into white line.

You don't run a jump at a T because the lines are already connected. What you are describing aren't "T"s, they are jumps.

Gotcha... thanks for the clarification. Yes, I was confusing the wording for sure. I verified it as well. "As a RAID Cave 1 diver, you are required to stay on the gold line mostly, and to make only simple navigational jumps to side passages using ONE jump reel or spool.", which is what we we're planning, but never found the passage to the bone room ;-). We try to practice as much as possible. We have about 30 cave dives since our training. Getting there. Cave 2 is coming in October in Tulum.

Ah, yes, I remember that big ass arrow, LOL. Only have done LR twice. Looking to go back soon if it ever opens again LOL!

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Originally Posted by patpicos

Your positioning of the gold is correct. After you go through the keyhole, you end up dropping down to a lower area. Eventually it pops up into a wider area and to your right there is what is called the Park Bench.

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That area is so convoluted.

I think the line as originally marked is the bypass tunnel near the floor in the Cornflakes slightly left of the big anchor where the line takes a hard right. It's great for checking for traffic on exit, as you have visual to the line past the single file bit before you have to commit to it.

The gold line does an almost 180 deg turn from due South at the right hand turn past Keyhole, to almost due North past the jump to the Bone Line. The Bone Line jump markers are nestled in on a short segment of line between two stations, with the line kinda sitting diagonal. should be directly in front of you as the ceiling opens back up, but before you turn left to head North with the line on the right wall.

Attachment 24716

The Hancock map includes the line position; I think there is copy hanging in the check in area still at Ginnie? EE has it giant sized on the wall in the classroom, and you can get the updated map from Cave Country Dive Shop.

The red line on the map is the Keyhole Bypass; small and squeezey stuff. Unmarked jump to the left at the big mountain peak looking rock in the breakdown room.

The updated map does not have the line on it.

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Originally Posted by rilelen

A "T" is a place where the single line you on literally splits into two different lines at a "T" intersection (like the letter shape). The gold line "T" at Little River is a great example. You swim in along the single gold line, which then intersects with a gold line to the left, and a gold line to the right. A big big arrow points to the exit. There are also multiple gold line Ts in JB. Usually gold line Tee's into gold line, and white line Tee's into white line.

You don't run a jump at a T because the lines are already connected. What you are describing aren't "T"s, they are jumps.

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There are no gold line T's in North Florida. Just ask Wyatt.

OP, it takes 1 spool and 1 reel to get to the Bone Line if you want to run a line.


Your first jump will be from the Gold Line to the Bone Line. Then you tie in your reel into the Bone Line and reel out into the White Room.


Also... Look, I mean well and apologize if the following statement reads poorly. The jump from the Main Line to the Bone Line is probably one of the easiest, most visible jumps in the system that everyone passes through. I think even the folks who dive to 1/6th get to that jump. That should have been the first Main Line "tee" on your way in. If could not find it, please ask one of the local guides to help you out.

The first arrow indicates the jump from The Gold to The Bone Line. The line indicates the Bone Line segment. The last arrow indicates your path as you reel out.


https://www.cavediver.net/forum/atta...17&cid=1&stc=1

https://www.cavediver.net/forum/imag...AAAElFTkSuQmCC

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Originally Posted by Whitrzac

The updated map does not have the line on it.

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Ugh, seriously? And I have a copy hanging up down there! Always used a letter sized copy of the old map with the lines for briefing dives. Sorry for that misrepresentation on my part

I personally don't think that jump is "one of the easiest, most visible jumps in the system that everyone passes through", especially first time in the area. I would say Hill400 jump fits that description. The Bone line is tricky to see, as you come out of Cornflakes low on the bottom, pass the closest point to the jump, then reach the double arrows where the line takes a sharp left. But by now the start of Bone line is hidden behind the bench, one has to rise up and start down the Bone tunnel to see/find it. Once you know where it is, no big deal, but first time not so easy.

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Originally Posted by LMN

I personally don't think that jump is "one of the easiest, most visible jumps in the system that everyone passes through", especially first time in the area. I would say Hill400 jump fits that description. The Bone line is tricky to see, as you come out of Cornflakes low on the bottom, pass the closest point to the jump, then reach the double arrows where the line takes a sharp left. But by now the start of Bone line is hidden behind the bench, one has to rise up and start down the Bone tunnel to see/find it. Once you know where it is, no big deal, but first time not so easy.

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Then I am sorry ;-)

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Originally Posted by mr_v

OP, it takes 1 spool and 1 reel to get to the Bone Line if you want to run a line.


Your first jump will be from the Gold Line to the Bone Line. Then you tie in your reel into the Bone Line and reel out into the White Room.


Also... Look, I mean well and apologize if the following statement reads poorly. The jump from the Main Line to the Bone Line is probably one of the easiest, most visible jumps in the system that everyone passes through. I think even the folks who dive to 1/6th get to that jump. That should have been the first Main Line "tee" on your way in. If could not find it, please ask one of the local guides to help you out.

The first arrow indicates the jump from The Gold to The Bone Line. The line indicates the Bone Line segment. The last arrow indicates your path as you reel out.

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Hmmm... thanks for the input. I've gone past the Hill 400 jump at least a dozen times. That one always stands out to me. In that spot, the line is kind of right in your face. Not sure why I keep missing the bone room jump. I'll take everything collectively from this thread and check again next week :)

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Originally Posted by ScuBurde

Hmmm... thanks for the input. I've gone past the Hill 400 jump at least a dozen times. That one always stands out to me. In that spot, the line is kind of right in your face. Not sure why I keep missing the bone room jump. I'll take everything collectively from this thread and check again next week :)

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When you exit the Keyhole, stay low to the bottom, follow the Gold Line and look at it. Right before the space really opens up, you should see two double arrows. If you took a left turn on the Gold Line - as in going to the Hill 400 Jump - you're too far.

You will NOT see the Bone Line from the position where you see the double arrows on the Main Line. Follow your jump procedure and tie off the spool, then go to the right.

The image below illustrates the approximate path and shows the double arrows on the gold line when a diver is facing to the right or the Bone Line direction.



https://www.cavediver.net/forum/atta...18&cid=1&stc=1

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Originally Posted by LMN

as you come out of Cornflakes to the jump

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Amazes me that the term cornflakes is used as a landmark still, when they ceased to exist years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Amazes me that the term cornflakes is used as a landmark still, when they ceased to exist years ago.

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Bottom of the Bag Crumpled Cereal Dust doesn't really have the same ring to it.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Amazes me that the term cornflakes is used as a landmark still, when they ceased to exist years ago.

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Only "old" divers know this!!

It makes me happy to still see it being used.

For what its worth - I also learned the term corn flakes :-)

OP - I searched youtube for the jump to bone line. Im a visual learner so sometimes its helpful to see. The beginning of the video is the first double arrows you will hit on the gold line right in front of the park bench. You will see the line for the bone line is cut pretty far back. Make sure you run your jump line close to the bottom or risk having other divers / scooters kick it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3jE7Y4uyQI

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Originally Posted by Comm

The beginning of the video is the first double arrows you will hit on the gold line right in front of the park bench.

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i think there's either active repairs, or maybe a low level line skirmish, going on around there. few months ago it was a double arrow between the floor placement and where the line goes up on the right wall. just got back from diving it today and it is currently a single yellow arrow on the floor.

[edit] hello fellow 513er!

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Originally Posted by AlexL

i think there's either active repairs, or maybe a low level line skirmish, going on around there. few months ago it was a double arrow between the floor placement and where the line goes up on the right wall. just got back from diving it today and it is currently a single yellow arrow on the floor.

[edit] hello fellow 513er!

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:-) We may have dove together many times

Why has nobody offered to take these divers on a tour? All kinds of great advice here but the truth of the matter is nothing can take the place of an experienced diver with good knowledge of the system taking a day to show some newbies the front of Ginnie. Sure, it's not the big exploration dive but remember we were all once newly minted cave divers where every dive was an exploration or at least an adventure. I can assure from many dives like this, the smiles after the dive are worth the time and expense plus maybe lunch or a beer or two after the dive.

Just my two cents, and no I don't cave dive anymore but if I did I would offer up.....

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Originally Posted by fno

Why has nobody offered to take these divers on a tour?

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personally? logistics. wife and i only dive Ginnie during weekday evenings, and wont go near the place fri-sun to avoid the crowds, which is typically when new divers are there. we also typically dive as a pair; if you're making a trip to cave country, most times you're bringing a buddy or two, and a team of four or five in the first 1,000' is a total trainwreck.

when we have braved the weekend crowds, i'd say about half the time we run into an intro team kitting up at the pavilion and strike up conversation. every time we have happily answered any of their questions about landmark locations, what's cool to look for, and break out the map if there is any confusion. unfortunately, we dont do parking lot insta teams anymore after multiple really bad experiences.

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Originally Posted by AlexL

dont do parking lot insta teams anymore after multiple really bad experiences.

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100% on that. Safer for everyone involved.

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Originally Posted by mr_v

100% on that. Safer for everyone involved.

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i know, right? last time we dove with @Comm he got cited for a rule 6 violation.

Attachment 24787

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Originally Posted by AlexL

i know, right? last time we dove with @Comm he got cited for a rule 6 violation.

Attachment 24787

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It was an inside job, I swear. I was set-up!!! That being said, one of the perpetrators was properly served retribution

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Originally Posted by fno

Why has nobody offered to take these divers on a tour? All kinds of great advice here but the truth of the matter is nothing can take the place of an experienced diver with good knowledge of the system taking a day to show some newbies the front of Ginnie. Sure, it's not the big exploration dive but remember we were all once newly minted cave divers where every dive was an exploration or at least an adventure. I can assure from many dives like this, the smiles after the dive are worth the time and expense plus maybe lunch or a beer or two after the dive.

Just my two cents, and no I don't cave dive anymore but if I did I would offer up.....

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Its called life. I barely have enough time to dive. Especially not enough time to dive as much as I?d like.
I find it enjoyable showing people new places though I am not a big fan of instabuddies. I will generally do a very basic ?get to know you? dive with someone first then we?ll explore cool stuff once we both know each other?s skillset.
Sadly I?ve had enough bad experiences diving with people I dont know well that I rarely offer anymore.


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Wow! Only one reply indicated a positive response (RDevit) to the idea of a mentored dive. I don't think the bone room and big tunnel qualify as the "cool stuff" anyway. It's a novice dive if there ever was one. And who implied a "meet in the parking lot and do a dive". I guess I never had bad experiences like some describe because I never expected much more than basic competence, and adherence to the basic rules of cave diving. Sure, they usually suck their air down at incredible rates, their gear configuration is a tragedy,and have that "deer in the headlights" look before (and sometimes after) the dive. Plus, no one ever got up the gumption to try and kill me, nor would I have given them the chance anyway.

I would be more than happy to do a mentored dive for someone. I dive a rebreather and live in the area now, so if my schedule is open reach out to me. Several people mentored me when I first started cave diving and I am more than willing to do the same for others.

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Originally Posted by fno

Wow! Only one reply indicated a positive response (RDevit) to the idea of a mentored dive. I don't think the bone room and big tunnel qualify as the "cool stuff" anyway. It's a novice dive if there ever was one. And who implied a "meet in the parking lot and do a dive". I guess I never had bad experiences like some describe because I never expected much more than basic competence, and adherence to the basic rules of cave diving. Sure, they usually suck their air down at incredible rates, their gear configuration is a tragedy,and have that "deer in the headlights" look before (and sometimes after) the dive. Plus, no one ever got up the gumption to try and kill me, nor would I have given them the chance anyway.

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I was just generalizing. I didnt even remember where the original question from the op was asking about. I was just generalizing on why its hard to offer to take people to dive due to life and about the instabuddy stuff that was brought up.

Its good you didnt have bad experiences. Ive been on dives with new to me full cave divers whos skills were so subpar they likely shouldnt have passed cavern or intro. Ive dove with new buddies who clearly would be of no help in an emergency so I was basically solo diving in regards to emergencies.

My wife met up with a regular dive buddy of hers at ginnie for a dive just off the mainline. A very basic dive most of us have done but in a smaller side tunnel. A person my wife?s buddy knew saw them and sort of self-invited themslves. My wifes buddy gave the stamp of approval to this new person because theyve dove together before. My wife went forward with the dive and was the lead diver. She spent the majority of the way out of the tunnel in severely limited vis because the new instabuddy flutter kicked the whole dive and thought nothing of it when my wife brought it up in the debriefing.

Instabuddying can suck


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First, if you meet someone that has 25 cave dives, and expect them to be as dialed in as someone that has 250, that's ludicrous. Everybody starts somewhere. Second, if you meet someone that dives 4 times a year on vacation, and expect them to be as dialed in as someone that dives 50 times a year, that's just dumb.

Mentor people, don't mentor people, its up to you. If you choose to, you need to manage your expectations of THEIR skills, not yours. They are not you. Remember, no one is immune from having a bad day.

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Originally Posted by OFG-1

Mentor people, don't mentor people, its up to you. If you choose to, you need to manage your expectations of THEIR skills, not yours. They are not you. Remember, no one is immune from having a bad day.

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There isn't a new cave diver that doesn't need mentoring. Entry level cave training is basic survival skills,but to accelerate your skills and develop proficiency , as well as learn new sites a mentor is important. Even after 1000 cave dives I wasn't adverse to being mentored. If you think you have learned all that is needed to be learned, then you have slipped into complacency, and that can be terminal.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

There isn't a new cave diver that doesn't need mentoring. Entry level cave training is basic survival skills,but to accelerate your skills and develop proficiency , as well as learn new sites a mentor is important. Even after 1000 cave dives I wasn't adverse to being mentored. If you think you have learned all that is needed to be learned, then you have slipped into complacency, and that can be terminal.

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Very well said. We are all beginners sometime

There are many that contributed to my skills (or lack of) in cave diving. Randy Mguire wasted a lot of study time in college to teach me how to scooter like a pro. Larry Green spent many hours taking me on dives just a little bit too advanced for me. Steve Berman paid me back for a lot of great dinners at the river house by f*@king with my gear while I was cooking dinner, also getting tied up with my own cave reel while on deco by some nameless Ahole friend (laughing their asses off while I cut up my jump lines). But there were some good ones too, like Larry's wife Sandra who carried a stage on the mile swim at Peacock and didn't tell me I was a chicken-#### on that very first try. Or Berman talking me into using his old leaky Dive-Rite wing instead my beloved OMS bungee wings so I could actually make it past the Maple Leaf (probably named something else now) . Thank God Ebay came around and let me sell all that gear that was holding me back but I didn't know it till someone smarter than me wanting a free beer (Bill Main knows who wer'e talking about) and choked down a crappy short dive with me or gave me some parking lot advice. Maybe these were the "good old days" but I'd like to think that some of the traditions and minor tragedies still happen once in a while.... FWIW, they do make for better cave divers