Do you talk about diving accidents with family and friends?

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Originally Posted by Garth

I would say it out loud but most people around me (loved ones) don't want to hear about cave accidents so i keep my thoughts to myself.

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This recent remark by Garth prompted me to contemplate the question of whether it is a good idea to discuss cave diving accidents with friends/family. Until only a year ago I used to share some of my thoughts on recent accidents with my diver wive (not active in cave diving). Instead of supporting my quest for safety improvement and learning, she always freaked out and tried to dissuade me from the sport. It's a purely emotional response that no amount of reasoning can overcome. So, I stopped telling her about the accidents altogether and now keep any discussion to myself and select cave diving friends to spare her and myself the drama.

Come to think about it, people who don't engage in cave diving are probably invariably going to react with "cave diving = suicide" type of emotion when learning about a fatality (with nothing good coming out of it). Heck, as an open water diver I myself was convinced for many years that diving in any overhead was instant suicide. This before I got eased into the sport by a generous mentor with the obligatory shift in perspective. The "overhead=suicide" mentality was being widely drilled by PADI and other agencies to all OW students during my early days as a diver. I suspect that this may have changed in recent years with cenote tour diving getting glamor treatment in the diving media and the "with proper training" bit coming into existence.

At any rate, I am curious to find out where others fall on the subject of sharing information/thoughts on cave accidents with friends and family.

I share. Whats to hide? Its a dangerous sport but friends and family understand I weighed the risk: reward and respect my choice.
Edit: its also a good way to explain how I mitigate the risks whwn I explain ehat led to the fatality and why I do things to avoid increasing risk (ie things like not doing blind jumps)

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Originally Posted by rddvet

I share. Whats to hide? Its a dangerous sport but friends and family understand I weighed the risk: reward and respect my choice.
Edit: its also a good way to explain how I mitigate the risks whwn I explain ehat led to the fatality and why I do things to avoid increasing risk (ie things like not doing blind jumps)

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You are very fortunate to have such understanding friends/family! I come from a family of non-divers/non-pilots who are convinced that any of these activities, even in their most benign form are crazy irresponsible. No amount of reasoning and explaining of risks mitigation has had any effect on their views, so I have long given up. I am fortunate to have a far more understanding spouse. Even she has limits, however.

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Originally Posted by oceancurrent

You are very fortunate to have such understanding friends/family! I come from a family of non-divers/non-pilots who are convinced that any of these activities, even in their most benign form are crazy irresponsible. No amount of reasoning and explaining of risks mitigation has had any effect on their views, so I have long given up. I am fortunate to have a far more understanding spouse. Even she has limits, however.

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Dont get me wrong. They think its nuts. But my other hobbies are private pilot, competetive practical shooting and kiteboarding, all of which have inherent risks. Im sure their view is all of my hobbies are nuts, but they know I dont care if they approve or not. But honestly the majority of times I?ve discussed a fatality they?ve learned. Between Carlos? death and the death of rodney?s grandkids, i feel like my family and friends know the importance of proper gas analysis and marking than most cave divers.


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Originally Posted by rddvet

I share. Whats to hide? Its a dangerous sport but friends and family understand I weighed the risk: reward and respect my choice.
Edit: its also a good way to explain how I mitigate the risks whwn I explain ehat led to the fatality and why I do things to avoid increasing risk (ie things like not doing blind jumps)

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Would you like to share the truth about the email?

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Originally Posted by EBRAUN

Would you like to share the truth about the email?

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If you want to get into a pissing match I?d be happy to set up a time and we can discuss in person.


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sure I would love yo finally put a name and face together. after all the issues you've apparently had with me it would be nice to talk in person.

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Originally Posted by EBRAUN

sure I would love yo finally put a name and face together. after all the issues you've apparently had with me it would be nice to talk in person.

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I assumed this is Orie, but maybe its Beth. If Beth, we?ve met. Irregardless we know the same people, I?m sure you?ve already done your research. Hell yall tracked down my wife for my email info which she only shared because she thought it was related to the multitude of problems with my ginnie psss at the time.


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no its Beth I made an account just so I could call you out on your lie about the email. I don't hid behind my husband or anyone. if you have/had a problem with me you never brought it up when I was at Ginnie, you only brought it up online. I have those emails also...yes I emailed her because you never filled out your email on the annual card. i don't work at Ginnie involving passes anymore. I can explain why you had a problem with getting CCR cave if you'd like. in 2020 or 2021 which ever the issue was

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Originally Posted by EBRAUN

no its Beth I made an account just so I could call you out on your lie about the email. I don't hid behind my husband or anyone. if you have/had a problem with me you never brought it up when I was at Ginnie, you only brought it up online. I have those emails also...yes I emailed her because you never filled out your email on the annual card. i don't work at Ginnie involving passes anymore. I can explain why you had a problem with getting CCR cave if you'd like. in 2020 or 2021 which ever the issue was

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I could care less about the ginnie issues. Its 2 years in the past and we did discuss it with you in person and via email.
I?m happy to track you down to have a conversation when I?m in cave country.


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I would just like you to answer my question about the IUCRR email you posted about. What was so threatening and grandstanding? You called me pathetic....everytime you mention me on this forum its always negative, why do I bother you so much? its not a pissing match I want to know why you've never come to me to talk about it.

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Originally Posted by EBRAUN

I would just like you to answer my question about the IUCRR email you posted about. What was so threatening and grandstanding? You called me pathetic....everytime you mention me on this forum its always negative, why do I bother you so much? its not a pissing match I want to know why you've never come to me to talk about it.

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The whole point of the email was to find the source of who gave me my info and deal with them, which I wasnt going to do.
I?ve never had a positive experience in our interactions at ginnie. I will happily discuss it with you in person because I?m sure nobody wants to watch us squabble back and forth.
At this point I?m just going to ignore the bickering and will leave it for a person to person discussion.


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when and where?

Thanks for the hijack, EBRAUN! Can we get back on topic now?

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Originally Posted by rddvet

Dont get me wrong. They think its nuts. But my other hobbies are private pilot, competetive practical shooting and kiteboarding, all of which have inherent risks. Im sure their view is all of my hobbies are nuts, but they know I dont care if they approve or not.

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Right on :supz:

By definition all members of the Nuts club don't care about approval. That's the way!

Good to know you fly too. Anyone who has any degree of aviation background would vigorously defend the need for accident reporting, so that makes total sense. Crazy to see that there are individuals out there who live in fear of potential litigation related to accident reports, yet have inserted themselves in position of gatekeepers.

Anyone else interested in chiming in on how they communicate (or not) accidents to family/friends?

My wife and I used to sky dive. She is also an open water diver and claustrophobic. She has not much in interest even in tourist wrecks and no, zero nada interest in cave diving. She trusts me not to make silly mistakes. Carry over from sky diving I guess.
She is aware there are risks involved. She knows, as should any cave diver, the longer you are invoked the chance of losing an acquaintance will continue to increase. It can happen to anyone and there are many ways a tragedy can unfold. We all know that.
Many of us have a spouse that cave dives. I would like to think there would be active and meaningful discussions there.
In discussions with my wife, I may mention an accident but it generally stays at a superficial level. I tend to focus more on the recovery effort. Then move on to the service.
My sister ?knows? I am simply daft. No discussions with her or my siblings other than they may know I am going to a service.
Nor do I discuss with non Cave-divers.
I will discuss dive plans with my wife depth, runtime, gas management and such. She is comforted by this approach.
Speculation about a fatal dive is certainly a discussion I avoid with her. There is no upside I can see.


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I am happy to talk to people at the level I think they're able to handle/understand/absorb without straying into emotionally driven conversation, similar to firearms, backpacking, and diet. For all of those subjects, I'm glad for the opportunity to help someone understand and become less afraid of something based on a lack of information or an abundance of misinformation.

As far as cave diving safety and my family:
My dad's response: It sounds crazy and dangerous to me, but if you're doing it, you must be doing it safe and smart because that's just how you are.
My husband's response: Just don't ask me to go! And WHY haven't you been cave diving lately? You're getting that look again. For GAWDS sake GO!
My daughter's response: 1) She didn't like me diving prototype rebreathers (understandable) 2) She asked that my first cave dive after my son's death be not solo. Otherwise, she wants me to enjoy.
My son's response was to put a photo of me cave diving on the hog board at USMC boot camp. One of his DI's ended up taking cavern training with me.
I just told my mother to watch "The Cave" because "it's a pretty realistic view of what I do." Yeah.

All of my family have been told in no uncertain terms that NO dive buddy, dive manufacturer, or dive site is to ever even be considered at fault should I kack on a dive. Ever. They have plenty of life insurance and I will haunt them in the not fun way if they blame anyone but me.

Talk about it, gently and with consideration for where they are, not where you want them to be.

Well said


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Basically I will share everything since I really couldn't care less what anyone thinks or says about me or my activities. I grew up doing stupid dangerous bronco and bull riding, then went to safer dirt bikes and stock car racing, cave diving and skydiving still seem less likely to kill me than my past hobbies did.

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Originally Posted by oceancurrent

You are very fortunate to have such understanding friends/family! I come from a family of non-divers/non-pilots who are convinced that any of these activities, even in their most benign form are crazy irresponsible. No amount of reasoning and explaining of risks mitigation has had any effect on their views, so I have long given up. I am fortunate to have a far more understanding spouse. Even she has limits, however.

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i can totally relate

I discuss them with my wife who is also my primary cave diving buddy, and with my other cave diving friends. I don't bring them up in other groups, but if someone else does I'll answer their questions the best I can and try to put the risks of cave diving in perspective.

At least talking with friends we do not have all the bickering back and forth. Miss talking around the campfire Discussions were simpler then.


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