wings with bungee on doubles?

I was at The Fill Station,a dive shop in Pompano last weekend when a chick came through the front door wearing her doubles.[to get filled] When she took them off,with my help,I noticed her bungee was in place and pulled rather snug.It was a Dive Rite wing but I cant recall the style.I asked her why she had the bungee on the wing running doubles.I have never seen a caver with a bungeed wing with doubles.I was told to remove mine and save it in case I run a single tank some time.Well she told me that she was taking cave and tech,and her instructor told her to leave the bungee on.Something about less drag.Im thinking possible entanglement issues.Other point of veiws on this would be interesting.By the way,when I asked her who her instructor was?The great Tom Mount.

So....is this your way of bashing Tom Mount? If so, why not just be up front about it?

Just because somebody has a bungee on their wing doesn't mean they're an accident waiting to happen. If you think so, you need to join a certain organization that I refer to as the Guebers(or goobers).

Bungees on a wing, as in all other things in this sport, are personal preference. I have a bungeed wing on my rebreather. Does this mean I'm unsafe? I have a bungeed 85lb lift double inflator wing with the bungees on the inside of the fabric, so no entanglement hazard....does this mean I'm unsafe?

If you have never seen a caver with bungeed wings, you haven't been cave diving very long.

Mike

No ive only been cave diving for 1 year.Not counting my careless trecks in the early 80s.I can tell you one thing though bud,I in no way am bashing anybody.Beatin around the bush aint my style.go ahead and jump to conclusions there mike,Yippie for your bungeed rebreather.I am still learning and find no reason I cant ask for an opinion.I wasent expecting one like yours.

Hey Charles.
Maybe you haven't figured this out yet but there are people on this and every other forum who take great joy in blasting whatever it is other people post. It's just the nature of the beast. I wouldn't take it personally. Some people are just uppity and you just have to have thick skin. At the rate I'm going soon my skin will be 12 mm thick and I won't need a Wet or Drysuit. ;-)
The only concern that I've heard raised about the bungee's on some brands of BC's is that should there be a leak of some sort the bungees would constrict and hasten the loss of bouyancy. I'm not sure I agree but that's the argument. I think that the water pressure around the BC bladder is sufficient enough to assist deflation. I don't use bungees.
O.K. Here's the part where 57 other people let me know how stupid I am.
Bring it on you tossers!!!

Evalyn Dudas (Susie of SS's mom) custom sews bungies into her Classic DR wings.... I was half going to beg her to sew mine up too... she did a great job, the wings tuck under along your deltoids and the tension is just enough to keep it tucked untill it inflates more than 1/2 full. Great design.... she simply sewed some weight belt webbing folded over along the edge of the wing (bladder removed at the time, I'm sure) which she ran the 1/4" bungie through and back to the inner rim of the wing. I wish I had a picture.... anyway, I'm in agreement with the others, bungies are a matter of preference, but if you're going to use them you want to make sure they are installed/utilized in the safest manner.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by MikeH

So....is this your way of bashing Tom Mount? If so, why not just be up front about it?

Just because somebody has a bungee on their wing doesn't mean they're an accident waiting to happen. If you think so, you need to join a certain organization that I refer to as the Guebers(or goobers).

Bungees on a wing, as in all other things in this sport, are personal preference. I have a bungeed wing on my rebreather. Does this mean I'm unsafe? I have a bungeed 85lb lift double inflator wing with the bungees on the inside of the fabric, so no entanglement hazard....does this mean I'm unsafe?

If you have never seen a caver with bungeed wings, you haven't been cave diving very long.

Mike

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Come-on We both know why its not used. She dives with them, big deal Mount had her keep them on,they did alot of things difrently when it started. She was probably used to them, why have her take them off and learn to trim out all over again. Mike dives his wraped up. (fighting the system)Ok
Its old and wore slap out. Next we will be talking about using helium at END of 100ft. Or im tired and may be over re-acting. either way its all the same. Damn haters :-)

I dive a Dive Rite Rec wing bungied and I have never heard of a line entanglement problem with them. I always thought that the concern would be that if you got a leak in your bladder it would squeeze the air out quicker. Like I said I dive with mine bungied and as I hope I do not get a leaking bladder but if I do I know I couldn't hurt the floor anymore than it is in Peacock system LOL.

Ok,so we all know im new out here,and it seems like old subjects are kinda gettin annoying to some.Maybe the internet isnt a good way to poll for different opinions.I would like to clear up my opinion of Tom Mount.Hes a person I could only learn from and would never question his style.

Assuming the bungees are not a negative factor; eg, entanglement, squeezing air out of a leak faster etc. , what positive purpose do they serve? My experience with them was that they caused the wing to inflate unevenly and mess with my trim, but maybe I had them rigged wrong. Anyway, I just finished cutting them off of my OMS double bladder wing and plan on testing it shortly.

To each his/her own. I have both the OMS 60#(no bungee) and a DR trek (with bungee). Both of these wings would take some serious abuse to put a hole in them. If wing failure is that much of a problem , change your diving habits.



No divers where hurt in the making of this post :D

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Originally Posted by novadiver

If wing failure is that much of a problem , change your diving habits.

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When I lived in Michigan, I dove several wrecks where 1/4 boiler plate tore like paper when the ship went down, making it near razor sharp. Holes in wings aren't something that happens everyday, but they do happen.

Just a side note, I cut my dry gloves far more often on those damn Zebra Mussles :wink:

The Armadillo uses a bungied wing...Mine aren't too tight, just enough to keep the excess wing from creating more drag...

I know some people cary a lift bag with then just incase something like that were to happen.

In all of the reported incidents and/or deaths, was a wing with bungies a contributing factor?

Maybe the concern is unwarranted?

who gives a flip about bungees, to each his own. You made a mistake in using peoples name on an honest question. Have fun and take care. :-D

There are two basic types of bungeed wings. The type that comes to mind for most people is the OMS type. These wings have the bungees wrapped around the bladder throughout its body.

I have no experience with this type of wing, and I can see why people would want to remove the bungee. But of course I would never remove it without a thorough knowledge of the pros and cons of removing it.

The other type of bungeed wing is like the Dive Rite Rec Wing, or a Scubapro, which I use. Rather than having the bungee wrap around the circumference, there is a flap made into the wing design that the bungee threads into. I have used this type of wing for almost ten years, and can't see how it would suffer the type of problem that all the naysayers gripe about.

One thing I do know for sure: if you remove the bungee, the wing won't work as designed. I was diving with someone yesterday that had a Scubapro RecTec wing with the bungees removed. The wing flapped around like crazy. I can't believe the guy won't put the bungee back.

So my advice: if you don't want bungees on your wing, buy a wing that was designed without bungees. If your wing was designed with bungees, leave them there.

Russell

Thats kinda why I asked the question sludge.I have a DR dual rec wing.It came with bungee in place.The dive shop told me to take it off so I did.I should have just asked the question straight up.Obviously on the dual rec,a bc blowout,with backup bladder wouldnt be a problem with a bungee putting the squeeze on the remaining air in it.And if the bungee got hung up on something you could just cut it loose no big deal.Again im just weighing the pros and cons.I may try it on sometime.

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Originally Posted by Herbie

who gives a flip about bungees, to each his own. You made a mistake in using peoples name on an honest question. Have fun and take care. :-D

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What do you know about bungees and being polite? Come all the way to FL and don't even dive, go crawl back in your hole.

The DR wings will work well with or without the gusset control cord (bungee). The cord is designed to control excess material and lower the drag when the wing is used with a single tank.

Someone above mentioned it messed with his trim; if it can affect it negatively, do think it might be turned around and used to positively affect trim issues? It takes a little thought though; I use it that way on the Rec wing I sidemount.

Jerry

If you get a hole in a non bungee wing, dependant on where it is, you can still pretty much use it as normal and get out of the cave with little or no stress. Use the correctly sized wing and gear configuration and you will be streamlined and no longer need a rubber band to scrunch up all your excess garbage. As always, dont develop solutions to non-existent problems with your cave gear.
This is of course my own humble opinion and no doubt will launch several koolaid responses.....go for it ;-)

Dave

Being a D I Y guy I have often wondered about making a rip cord from an old Zeagle weight system that could be adapted to release the bungee if one of these hypothetical eventualities were to happen. I never tried it because it seemed like over engineering a solution to a problem that you would rarely run into. I would think that the amount of air a compromised un-bungeed wing could hold (dependant on the location and size of the hole) would easily be overcome by the buoyancy my dry suit could provide.

Anybody else’s thoughts on a ditchable bungee?

~G

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Originally Posted by Gibby

Anybody else’s thoughts on a ditchable bungee?

~G

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It'd be better to create ditchable rig.

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Originally Posted by Jerry

The DR wings will work well with or without the gusset control cord (bungee). The cord is designed to control excess material and lower the drag when the wing is used with a single tank.

Someone above mentioned it messed with his trim; if it can affect it negatively, do think it might be turned around and used to positively affect trim issues? It takes a little thought though; I use it that way on the Rec wing I sidemount.

Jerry

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Rec wing here too-It can, i have tried it.

If you are diving a wreck with razor-sharp metal, carry a lift bag. My God, some of you people need to be careful!! My Dual Tec Rec Dive Rite have bungees, tucked between the backplate and the wings. Nice design, easy to control. I too believe they are there for a reason, as an integral part of a particular wings' function. But each to their own...

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Originally Posted by ocalamm

If you are diving a wreck with razor-sharp metal, carry a lift bag. My God, some of you people need to be careful!!

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Umm, yea...I dive a dry suit in the Great lakes (go figure) and yea, I can make a controlled ascent and hold a 10 ft stop using just that. This would be my first option before a lift bag, I carry two lift bags (while wreck diving), bungeed to the bottom of my backplate. We practiced time and time again deploying them in class and outside of class.

My comment was strictly with regard to wings "can" get a hole in them, not my contingency plan.

Just a little input into wing design and great lake wreck diving. I have a set of DeepOutdoors 85 pound wings with an internal bungee. (their the only yellow ones I've seen) I haven't had any problems using them in caves or great lakes wrecks (like Mike) for the last 5 years. I can change the tension internelly on them based on the cylinder size. I used double 80's in the great lakes due to the often 4-6 foot seas and the weight of double 95's. Much easier getting on a rocking boat with 80's.

As to redundancy on lift. I used a DUI CF200 dry suit as my primary source of bouyancy, and my wings as surface flotation, or back-up. I've never seen a CF200 suit torn or either rebar or sharp metal on wrecks. My drygloves were a different story though. Zebra Muscles were a #####! I also carried a 50 pound lift bag as well. I've been blown off more than one wreck, and needed an accent platform.

Anyway, if you want a closer look at the DeepOutdoors wings, just look for my Yellow set, and ask me...... Ken.

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Originally Posted by DogDiver

I also carried a 50 pound lift bag as well. I've been blown off more than one wreck, and needed an accent platform.

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Yep, this is "my" PRIMARY reason for carrying a lift bags, but as I have said, I carry two (and two reels). I have fouled a bag/reel more than once at depth, the reel damn near starts smokin' when you let them go from 150' :wink:

Just for the record, my cold water/wreck wings are not bungeed, I like the Halcyon wings, I use this with dbl PST LP95's and the wing is my primary source for bouyancy, drysuit secondary.

IMHO all of the phobias about bungies are a bunch of hog wash. I have never seen a single legitimate report of a bungie being a contributing factor to a diving accident. (I guess it is possible that it has happened, but I certainly have never read a reliable report of it!)

I have dived OMS with bungies, DR Wreck with Bungies and Golem Gear without bungies, in both cave and open water. Currently, I am using the Golem Gear wing, but I would be just as happy and comfortable to dive any of the 3.

Just my .02

Regards,
Randy