https://newschannel9.com/news/local/...on-county-tenn
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more information;
http://herald-citizen.com/stories/br...nty-cave,34397
I am not sure if this link will work:
https://www.facebook.com/wkrntv/vide...5OTQ0ODU5OTE4/
A video of a police press conference.
He's out safe as per Edd's wife.
Saw a post on Facebook that the diver was recovered safely, but I don’t know the source.
I, too, saw that he is out alive (posted by a reputable source).Quote:
Originally Posted by kidsdream
Mike Young posted this on FB:
"Out safe, Josh was found in great shape swam out on him own after 27 hours!!! This guy is a trouper!! Kept calm and waited for help."
He also said: "Edd Sorenson did all the heavy work again. I just pulled over watch."
Mike's wife posted 6 hours ago: "UPDATE Edd Sorenson was able to locate the diver 400 ft in. He was in an air pocket waiting for help. He is doing well for being stuck in 50-60 degree water for 27 hours."
Both Mike and Edd are super! Thank you!
Well done Edd and Mike. Great when one of these ends positively.
Saw on FB where Edd will be interviewed on GMA tomorrow AM.
Love to hear a positive outcome. Thanks to all involved!
The diver was lucky in that a local US diver had loaned him a drysuit. Otherwise he would have been very hypothermic.
How many true rescues is that for Edd now?
Pretty amazing! Kudos, Edd!
Was there a collapse or some condition that precluded lost diver drill?
How come the other divers waited for Edd instead of going back in to the air pocket to look for their friend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
The report said they looked for 5 hrs before giving up and calling 911
We'll add this story as one of the historical vignettes in the Guidelines to Sump Rescue document. Here's what I've been able to pull together from what people have posted publicly.
------
Britain Josh Bratchley was diving with four other British cave divers in the Mill Pond cave in Gainesboro, TN on 16 APR 2019 when his guideline broke. Bratchley was alone at the time. The cave has several major restrictions, sharp limestone, and the floor is covered in deep silt. There was a silt-out. When Bratchley could not find the other end of the broken guideline heading to the exit of the cave, he traveled to end of the cave where there was a large air pocket. Bratchley had brought a wetsuit on his trip to America but was wearing a drysuit he had borrowed from a local diver.
When Bratchley did not exit the cave at the agreed upon time of 1500, his four friends started looking for him. They spent many hours in the cave searching but due to the silt they could not find him. At 0100 they contacted emergency services. By 0500 emergency services had contacted several experienced cave divers in the region, including Edd Sorenson and Mike Young. Sorenson and Young flew to the local airport with their cave diving equipment and then were flown by a Tennessee State Highway Patrol helicopter to the dive site.
At approximately 1700 the incident commander gave a press update. He gave a summary of the dive incident without naming any of the participants. He did mention that they were known to be experienced cave divers. He then reported that rescuers were being flown in, would need about an hour to set up their equipment, and then diving would begin at around 1800 or 1830. He said the friends of the missing party believed he got separated about 400’ back in the cave and they believed he would go to the air bell, where there was enough air for someone to stay for twenty four hours or more. They showed a large printout of a line map of the cave. He said they were aware of the average cave passage size, max depth (40’), temperature (55F), and that swimming one way through the cave took around forty minutes. He said the missing party was wearing a drysuit. He noted that the water visibility for the cave had improved. He let the press know they would try to do another press update by 2200.
Edd Sorenson did the swim into the cave. Mike Young stayed on land by the entrance to the cave as a safety diver in case Sorenson did not return on time. The original estimate for the in and out dive trip was 2.5 hours. The incident team was able to show Sorenson a photo of the air bell from a prior exploration trip. During his dive Sorenson found where the guideline was broken and ran a new guideline from there. He was able to find his was to the air bell at the back of the cave. When he surfaced in the air bell, Bratchley was 12’ from him. Bratchley was calm and said to him, “Thank you, thank you, who are you?” Sorenson asked him a series of questions about his condition and his equipment. Bratchley had taken his gear off and put it on some mud where he had been able to get out of the water. Sorenson briefed him on how they would conduct the swim out, including how they would transition from his line back to the normal guideline. Sorenson and Bratchley then swam out of the cave together. Sorenson’s total time in the cave was approximately fifty minutes. Bratchley had been in the cave for twenty-seven hours. On the surface Bratchley was given a quick exam, refused medical treatment, and said his only request was a pizza.
so....the air pocket exists because of the type of rock in Tennessee? which is non porous? as opposed to the lime stone here in florida which seems not to be able to hold air for long?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltb7733
TN cave is in limestone also, airbell is above the water table. This exists in FL too. Line dry entrance to a sump, but this is a spring to a dry passage type place. This is fairly common, but not always large enough for divers.
I guess I can't like your synopsis because of some technical glitch, so I will just say thanks for this. It was very informative. It appears as if Bratchley made a very good decision about going back to the air pocket. Of course, kudos to Edd and Mike for dropping everything to head out and to Edd for his skilled actions on the rescue dive itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm
I'm glad he got a win after the DR experience. I got to hear some of the story of that one, there is no way it was pleasant.
Thank you for posting your links to this rescue.....I've never met Edd Sorenson, but I have to give him the utmost respect he deserves....! thank you Edd Sorenson & rblackburn !
Good on ya, Edd!
Looks like the story made the national news...
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1499230787895
Safe diving,
Rich
Wow!
I hope the diver warms up and is ok!
So, first off as always, THANK YOU EDD & MIKE!!!
What I do not understand and would love someone to explain in better detail.... Per Jason Richards map, this cave is 434' in length, a straight passage (no side passages) with one bedding plane that has a height of 18". I understand his line was severed and so he did the exact thing he should have done which was surfacing into the known room and waiting. What I don't understand is, why could the rest of his team not find him? He was pretty much at the end of the line. I know I'm an infant in terms of cave diving experience (I'm not even full cave yet) but this really wasn't a cave you could get lost in... one way in, one way out with a known area of open air at the end. Again, I think he did exactly what he should have done with a broke line.... I'm just confused about every thing else????
If they were OC I would imagine they got low on gas trying to find him and had to exit.
Ok there is that possibility.... maximum depth is 40ish feet. No one has said "we just didn't have enough breathing gas" They were quoted as "looked for hours and couldn't find him" but they were almost positive where he was?? Something is missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyC
twaldo,
I have not been in this cave so I'm relating experience from other similar types of systems. Though it is a short cave, it is not necessarily easy to route find. A fairly straight passage can be very wide and the way forward not obvious. Throw in percilation and stirred up silt with difficult low jagged passage and you have an extremely difficult time route finding. It is not a negative reflection on the divers that couldn't find him, trust me if they could they would have, it was likely just more difficult than their experience. Good on them not creating another fatality in the rescue attempt.
I sort of get what your saying.... Little River from the Chimney to the stop sign would be a great example. It is very wide and passable, without a gold line would be VERY easy to get "lost" in similar passage with low viz even with high flow(might actually make it worse with flow). Still waiting for the rest of the story though. I am so interested in this particular story because sump diving is why I became interested in cave diving in general....always hated being in a "dry" cave and having to stop because of a water choked passage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby
Thanks for the response though.
Tim
On that note, I do hope to get to dive this cave at least up to the 18" bedding plane... sorry that is just to tight for me :) I would love to see it up to that point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby
The line didn't actually break. The British cave divers don't like the US thin nylon line. They were in the process of relining the cave. They first removed the original nylon line, then another diver started from the surface laying larger polypro line. Because of the restriction, and zero visibility, he was unable to get to Josh. FWIW, I went up there yesterday, and got this directly from the divers involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm
Not much chance of that now, the landowner has closed the cave for fear of lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Thank you Forrest, THAT is what I was looking for. Just curious, do you know at what point Edd tied into their line? before or after the bedding plane?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Sad to hear, though I feel confident it will eventually be re-opened.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Why would you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
This is now another “incident” making the national/international news, perpetuating the belief that cave diving is extremely dangerous. I know landowners that don’t want people on (or in) their property for fear of law suits. And the media attention makes it more likely that some ambulance chaser will sign up to go after someone’s life savings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Is that a standard protocol when relining a cave, especially an extensive low and silty area? I would have thought that is not in compliance with the SOP of maintaining a continuous line to the surface.
I'm only a Cave tourist and have had no involvement in relining other than open water sites in the local river and some short tours on a jump line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael F
I've only been in one relining project, Little River, under the guidance of Kensuf, and we took line out as we put new line in and always had a continuous line to the surface.
It was actually pretty fun, and I learned a lot. If you get a chance to volunteer on something like that, do it.
We got to dive LR at night. It's a lot darker in the cave then, lol :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
So under what direction were they relining the cave? Were they asked by a committee or local divers, or were they just doing it on their own because they didn't like the line?
Are you saying Josh was removing the old line while someone was following him laying new line, and they got separated?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
So the lost diver pulled the line going in and was waiting on his buddy to bring the new line to him in the air bell?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm
Essentially, yes. The guy bringing in the new line couldn't find his way in. It is better to have two lines than none.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafan
Forrest. Unless I'm missing something, this sure seems like the base plan was at odds with the continuous guideline to the surface rule; and a pretty questionable strategy in any case. But I know I have executed some less than perfect dive plans and have had fortunate outcomes.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
So why was the relining being done exactly? Were they asked by a committee or local divers, or is it simply "we're British, we don't like this".
I think their theory is you can't feel our small line with heavy gloves on. Apparently they re-line caves just like they leave the EU. No working plan at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafan
Except this time Brexit stands for Brokenline Exit.
But really, if they're visiting divers, why are they relining caves? Are they diving TN caves regularly or surveying them?
Lets see... owners change, owners calm down post event and they also regain trust in local divers/cavers. Have seen it happen in Arkansas... maybe not international news but "explorers" lost, big news story, "explorers" found.... cave closed.... then open back up after all the press has been gone for awhile. Not totally sure of TN law but I'm betting it is very similar to Arkansas law where if the owner isn't charging for access they can't be sued for accidents that happen on their property.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
So yes I have faith that it will re-open.
Guys, let’s wait until we know the relevant facts. I don’t doubt Forrest about the info he conveyed but perhaps there is more to the protocol they followed than what has been inferred. That protocol, obviously, as this incident shows, is not sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Also tourist cave divers or explorers, let’s be careful out there and try not to be complacent. We are fortunate to have Edd (and others) but he literally puts his life on the line every time he goes recovering/rescuing cave divers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by midway
I was asking for relevant facts. FW said he spoke to them. I asked 2 or 3 times and it wasn't answered. Not sure where you think relevant facts will be coming from? I think if FW spoke to them directly since he knows them, he should be able to supply relevant facts (as he already did).
Didn’t the school sink incident turn into a law suit even though it wasn’t a “pay to play” situation”?Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
And I can think of a lot more closures than openings in the last 10-15 years.
Sorry for the pecimism, and I am surely grateful for the positive news. I just cringe at the media attention that seems to often play to the “close the caves” crowd.
:) you are comparing Florida cave diving to Tennessee diving in caves.... it is a whole different world outside of Florida.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
What’s so different, that makes any of my points not relevant? Are landowners outside of FL somehow different?Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Actually given ALL the exposure that cave diving gets in Florida, yes they are... it is relatively unknown outside of Florida. Maybe I am overly optimistic but I've seen several similar events fade into the past fairly quickly in "dry caving" country. Where in Florida cave diving deaths for WHATEVER reason (mostly not cave divers) tends to happen on a yearly basis and keeps it ever present in the mind of land owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
The latest NSS News has an article on this type of thing. "Sportsmens Laws" seem to say that landowners incur no additional liability beyond what they have to do to keep trespassers from hurting themselves. I believe the lawyers in the School Sink case tried to argue that the landowner did not provide enough warning to the trespassing divers that cave diving has large risks. I'm not sure if every state has laws like this though.
That is great,but you still end up spending money to defend yourself. We lost Telford because the owner had to spend a lot of money defending themselves, and becomes far cheaper just to close the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
I do most of my diving in a massive sinkhole on private property in New Mexico. It is not an overhead environment, but it has the same issue--an owner making a decision to allow diving on private property. Many years ago, this particular sink had an absentee landowner, and the caretaker was making money on the side letting divers in. One of them died, and there was a lawsuit. Decades later, that lawsuit is well remembered in the area. There was no diving in that sink for many years, and it is a great site--280 feet deep, with pretty decent visibility. There are other other sinks on other properties, and none of the owners will allow diving--same reason. We have to be very careful and aware of the very strict rules for usage, because we could lose the right to dive there on a whim. We hear about that death and the concern about a repeat regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm
Thanks for that.. It is not only the landowners of open sites that are affected by these incidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAd
Here are the facts - Tn has some beautiful and unique caves, I was the original explorer to just past the first restriction. Life got in the way and new sites were found so I never took the time to go back. Weeks later Jason Richards extended my line to the air bell. About two years ago I made a dive along with a friend to the airball to check it out, with having much easier sites to explore I decided I would let Jason finish the exploration. Fast forward to present a couple weeks ago a group of brits have arrived in Tn. The group of about 20 consisted of mostly dry cavers with 3 cave divers. While the dry cavers were working on connecting 3 major cave systems to make the Mountain Eye systems over 100 mi long. The divers were looking for springs and sumps to explore. I took them around or gave them locations on stuff I have either explored that still had work left to do or virgin stuff that I haven't had time to go and check out. After going around looking at stuff they picked out some sites they wanted to push.Friday we ended up at the Mill pond , making a dive to the air bell, where they decided they would like to replace the #24 cave line that was in there due to the fear of a break or lost line with thick drygloves. The plan was put in place to reline the cave with polypro line to the air bell then to continue exploration. This was the point I told Josh he should take my suit and undergarment since I had to work the next week and wouldn't be making the dive and needing it.
Tuesday the plan was set in place to reline. Another local cave diver was set to go with them for surface support. On the way home from work I phone the surface support diver to check to see how much cave booty they have gotten aka Virgin passage appox 1500. No answer well no big deal as service is spotty in that area. About 10 mins later I received a call back excited for the news to only have my heart drop and tears come to my eyes when the words "Josh is missing" came from his voice. I quickly replied I'm 30 mins from home and 45 to the sites ill grab my kit and extra bottles and be there asap. Arriving at the site of which I was expecting to be bad viz since its a super slity cave with no traffic only 5 divers have seen the air bell at this point. After getting some information Diver 1 was laying new line in Diver 2 "Josh" was reeling in the #24 line from the surface to the airbell behind diver 1. Appox 250-275' in the were seperated where diver 1 turned the dive, making it to the surface where he expected diver 2 to be already taking kit off. When no sign of diver 2, diver 1 instantly went back in for a search. The search continued to 2200 hrs where the viz was totally blown making this situation possibly a multi rescue or recovery. Plan was made to return to my house to fill bottles give the silt time to clear and go back in. Keeping in mind we are certain he is in the air bell since the line he is reeling up has a tie off in the air bell and once he got ahead of diver 1 viz would have improved to a couple feet.
Some comments ask why was it so hard to find since its a one way in one way out passage and very short. Imagine finding virgin cave in zero viz and the viz I'm talking is not a small silt cloud, its you take a 3000 lumen primary and stick to your mask where you could barely get a faint glow. Now run line tie in to the eol at the polypro making searches, make tie offs, make sure you don't have line traps, then you have to navigate major restrictions, now you can get an idea this is a major problem.
Wednesday appox 0200 BCR contacts me and asked for a description of the site and situation. I gave them what they needed. Between diver 1 and diver 3 both brits then my self we agreed the dive would be best made with someone with no emotional attachment in case of the worse.0300 phone to Edd Sorenson we talked for a bit gave all information and plans were made for him and Mike Young to make the dive. 0600 arrived at site to see the viz had improved greatly to around 5-7'. Edd arrives and gets in the water while Mike is doing surface, 20 mins later we have our friend back. I can't give thanks to Edd or Mike enough for making the trip and the dive.
Now for the site comments. This site will remain closed for good its on private property thats been in the family for decades, this isn't a site where you would want to spend a few hours diving on the weekend to have fun we have much better sites in the area for that.From all the media attention we have received and none of it is good or help for the future, I'm almost certain this will affect the local cave exploration for years to come.When the head reported for Good Morning America says land owners should not allow cave diving on their property that makes for a real tough argument to the land owner that we are very capable diver to execute the dives we are asking to do. You dont hear on main stream media about finding miles of new cave or new species of inverts or find out where the water source is actually coming from to know how to improve our local water sources, you only hear of one incident out of 1000s of dives. So I'm not very hopeful that the local diving will continue as it was.
What I am most excited about is I now have a great story I can tell my kids and friends, I got the see my friend again and hug his neck, and I get to plan for exploration dives with all of them. All in all it was a scary few hours but a blessing from God that it all worked out.
Amazing story! Thanks for the background info, and we can all be thankful about the great outcome.
A brilliant result, well done to all involved in the rescue.
Cathal