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OK, I know Ginnie doesn't allow doubles at the Intro level... But what are some suggested sites where an Intro level diver using doubles *within training limits* can gain some experience? Nothing too challenging, just looking to enjoy. Out-of-towner here, haven't been to Florida in years, so I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.
Chris, in all due respect, its not just Ginnie that doesn’t let intro divers dive doubles, its your certification agency, IANTD.
http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003[1].pdf
page 42.
With that said, I’m an intro diver that is in the process of stepping up to doubles as well. I got a nice new set that I really want to learn how to use SAFELY. My question is, other than doing expensive, boring, OW dives, just to train on my doubles before I get my "permission slip" from my future apprentice instructor, what are some good resources that can allow me to increase my skill set prior to taking my tanks into somewhere that will result in a potentially unsafe environment? I very much value my life much more than I care about diving doubles, however, any recommendations as to how and where to train would be greatly appreciated.
safe divin’ to all!
--jm
Thanks for pointing out the obvious jm! ... I'm fully aware of the IANTD course limitations, and fully aware of what my instructor taught me in regards to those limitations. I was obviously referring to the typical 1/3 single - 1/6 doubles penetration, no jumps/gaps, etc...
thanks guys for pointing out that the move from singles to doubles is totally ignored by most training agencies. you get cavern/intro certified in a single tank and you are on your own to "learn to use" doubles. No one gives any guidance at all here.
i personally suggest you stay in open water with new doubles. try a quarry or lake or lazy river until you can do the air share drills with a buddy and not drop your feet, make sure you can reach all valves and give some thought to which one to shut down first in a free flow. Maybe purchase and read the intro/cave manuals from NSS, IANTD, NACD, etc.
good luck,
-skip
A cave is sure not the place to "learn" to dive doubles.
You said you haven't been to Florida in years which leads me to believe that you haven't been cave diving in years (I could be wrong - I apologize if I am). If this is the case, I surely wouldn't suggest just jumping into the caves with doubles to get your feet wet again.
Not only for your own safety but also from a cave conservation point of view.
Head out to your local quarry to get your doubles dialed in.
Maybe you could get up with your old instructor and have him do a 'tune up' dive with you?
Be safe!
Hey Guys, I learned to use doubles at forty fathom grotto under the guidance of a dive master the first day and an instructor on the second. I was intro to cave at the time. I didn't use doubles in a cave until apprentice class and my instructor in Cave Diving told me I was ready. He is the guy I pay to give me that kind of advice. If you don't follow that advice you may as well toss your money out the window. Personally I don't think all divers are created equal and you need to talk to your instructor. He can help you configure gear and pick some spots for you to practice. I am amazed that people pay an experienced instructor and then take training advice off somebody on a forum. You may as well ask them how you can take your own kidney out. You would live longer. There are a few places like Troy springs, Forty Fathoms etc. that I go to when I practive with new gear. Very frankly I was trained and made it a habit not to trial new gear, suits, regs, scooters etc in a cave. When I haven't scootered for a while I will practice at least one dive in open water. Each and everytime I break that rule it ends up a minor disaster.
Good luck guys and let me know when you take that kidney out, I'm O- and a universal donar. Cindy :D :lol:
They're not hard to learn to dive in but are definitely "different."
My first dive in doubles was quite comical. I still remember it. If it had been in a cave it woul dhave been quite bad; at minimum I would have left lots of face-prints in the bottom.
It took me about a dozen dives to get really "sorted" with them, mostly just getting my sense of trim back and getting my kit set up so everything was balanced right.
Find a good place to go play in open water and have at it. And if you want some laughs, have a friend bring a video camera and shoot some footage - it'll be worth it.
i'll agree i had a several dives in my doubles before my intro class and after having my trim tweaked by my inst.(definatly a good thing) i felt horrible, now im very comfortable, but then i went to the pool after my class and dove in local sink before i went in another cave.
on a side note i am always looking for someone else to dive with who's at my level of training. im located in Tallahassee where are you guys at, or you can pm me.
Garrett
I think NAUI-Tec had the right idea w/ their "Intro to tech" class, it might be worth a look for you.
I would (actually i did) go to and spend a lot of time at vortex springs in ponce de leon...you can camp and get air fills and dive doubles to your hearts content in a real cave down to about 119 feet to a locked grate. A great place to get familiar with equipment and there is even some artificial overhead for your diving pleasure...Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarryCommando
Actually Ginnie does allow doubles in the main cavern.[cave grated off]that would be a good place to get the feel of em.I made my first dive in the cavern at peacock.Once I got used to feeling like a turtle we took the peanut tunnel for a spin.Staying over rock instead of mud to start out helped me.
I did my doubles familiarization at Morrsion Springs. My buddy and I just tooled arond the drop off and all through the roots of the swamp and throughout the sandy areas until we had burned a set dry (3 looong dives). Later we came back with topped tanks and did some cavern diving in the upper and lower sections.
Personally I think doubles tend to trim better and are very stable once you get used to them.
That said, during my full cave class I got a double leg cramp in the cavern zone of P1. :x OUCH That was something I had never rehearsed. After experiencing that, I would suggest going to a safe, shallow place with a friendly bottom and doing all the silly stuff like rolls and flips just to see what that is like. When it happened to me I rolled over, grabbed my legs and then took a deep breath to get to the ceiling. It was ugly, but it worked. Unfortunately, in the process I lost all my cool points. :(
Morrison isn't a bad choice for this.... it has the somewhat-unique advantage of being free to access (at least at the present) although there's no fill station there. On the other hand you can dive damn near forever on a full load in 108s in the run!
I agree. That's why I learned how to dive doubles outside of an overhead environment several years ago - with the help of people more experienced than me (only been certified since '96)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason B.
I was intro certified in April of last year. As my instructor was fond of reminding me, too many Florida cavers think that cave diving only exists in Florida. I'm from the Midwest, and there's both natural caves here (most notably Missouri) and man-made (Piquette Mine in Wisconsin with 2 miles of line laid down to 100ft, which is where I was certified.) Last time I was in Florida, I was a non-diving tourist; sorry if I gave the wrong impression.Quote:
You said you haven't been to Florida in years which leads me to believe that you haven't been cave diving in years (I could be wrong - I apologize if I am).
I agree.Quote:
If this is the case, I surely wouldn't suggest just jumping into the caves with doubles to get your feet wet again.
Agreed.Quote:
Not only for your own safety but also from a cave conservation point of view.
Yep, done that.Quote:
Head out to your local quarry to get your doubles dialed in.
I was just curious about some relatively easy dive spots if I make it down to Florida sometime...
The best bet when posting to avoid misunderstanding with others is to post more information. If you're "just curious" and don't want others showing concern for you then try to explain yourself and what you want at the start of the thread instead of having to defend yourself at the end. Good luck with your diving, Cindy :D
Jackson Blue is a good one. Big, clear, and good outflow. That was my first cave dive in doubles and you can play around in the cavern for your first dive before heading down the mainline.
What major difference did you find between a Single and Doubles?
I found it much easier to use double but this might have been because at the time the BC I had for single was an old 80's style jacket that had the the shoulders taped. It really $ucked. When I went to doulds it was the right equipment Bands DR wings BP. I felt much more in control Right Away.
But doesn't Jackson Blue forbid cavern and intro divers?Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
Depends on which deputy is manning the window.
Here's the problem: the rules say cave divers only. Some interpret that to mean Full Cave, but some interpret it (as do I) to mean overhead trained divers only. Cavern divers are overhead trained.
Hence the effort to get the rules rewritten and clarified.
Peacock 1 was one of my favorites for what you describe. Dive up the Pothole tunnel to 1/6's, come back to the cavern, recalculate 1/6's and go up the Peanut tunnel. Gets you a good long dive within the limits of your certification.
I'd highly suggest a huge rocky cavern for some basic "getting used to" doubles and then a cave like JB or peacock (peanut tunnel) for your first few. I took a buddy in Ginnie's main cavern and we did about a two hour dive just playing around, hide and go seek, etc and it gave him a great increase in his comfort level. You can also access JB via the millpond waterway if you're worried about being allowed into the park... Cave Adventurer's rents pontoons you can take up there for cheap or you can simply drop a canoe or jon boat in at the boat ramp and head up to the head spring. Great huge cavern for doing such training activities. I was there last night and after about an 70 min dive, I spent an additional 40 minutes in the cavern area working with some stages and some new gear configurations before doing my deco and getting out... I was thinking about it during my dive and really wanting to see what I looked like in terms of trim, gear config and such and since I didn't have a poloroid or a mirror, I decided to take a back up light out and leave it lit up on a rock to one side of the cavern... then I killed my primary (still had a small mask light on) and was able to watch my shadow on the walls which allowed me to see my trim and if I had any crap that was where it shouldn't be... great dive btw.
-Matt
hey matt, good stuff about light and checking trim by looking at shadow. We keep taking pictures of each other, but many don't turn out, and it's difficult to push buttons to review pictures....Better to get real time info and adjust and watch the shadow change. i'm going to try that next time!
-skip
yeah, i've been told I'm a little self centered and have a big head... I often find myself covering my lite when leading the dive and watching my shadow from my buddy's light swim ahead of me on the cave walls. Can you blame me... not every cave diver can be this sexy.
-Matt
oh lord, im gona need a shovel in a minute