Lost In Little River

I know, the title sounds impossible but here we go...

I thought I might make it a month without incident but oh well.

Our team of three (all full cave certified under 100) dove Little River yesterday 6/10 with incredible conditions (No Flow/Great Vis). We ran a reel from the steps down to the gold-line (i was in lead position), dropped O2 tanks, headed up Merry-go-Round (marked cookie), made it to the "T" to Florida Room (marked cookie), headed to/into Florida room and swam to thirds.

At the turn, we kept our positions (I became the last diver, middle stayed in middle, and #3 became #1).

I started making photographs on the trip out. Plenty of images of the middle divers fins. Everything is going smoothly, the cave is amazing, we made it to the "T" to Merry-go-Round and pulled cookies. I continued happily making photographs as we continued to exit, or at least I thought we were headed to the exit. It seemed like it was taking a bit longer than usual to reach the big arrow leading to the exit.

As it turns out, Our entire team of three COMPLETELY MISSED THE "T" TO THE EXIT and we were not fully aware of that fact until we reached the "T" to the Florida room again. Yes, we had made the complete circle swimming up the Serpentine passage back to the Florida room "T". We caught the exit "T" and pulled our cookies the 2nd time around. Pretty embarrassing and I did notice that the entire team definitely began swimming more rapidly after we had realized out mistake. We exited with no further complications and joined the BIG OLE DECO PARTY / PHOTO SHOOT that was taking place in the cavern and basin. What could have been disastrous was just an incident.

Back on the surface packing, one of my team members mentioned, "that sort of thing makes you really think about what could happen, especially considering that we were diving in optimal conditions". I agreed.

Lesson learned: It doesn't matter my position on the line, it doesn't matter how amazed I am by the environment or dive conditions, it doesn't matter what task I am involved with, I MUST KEEP TRACK OF NAVIGATION. I am ultimately responsible for getting myself back to the surface.

I would dive again tomorrow with either of these people. I think all three of us got a little reality check yesterday and the importance of line awareness and navigational awareness is a little more concrete today.

Dominick :arrowgreen

I have done the same thing on a scooter. Before they re-lined Little River, it was easy to miss the second T. It still would be easy, if you aren't paying attention.

I hate to disagree Forrest but the lines as they are now are very obvious. My hat is off to Dominick for posting about this though, that takes guts and is going to help others.
Awareness is one of the keys and needs to be focused on more during training.

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In more usual Little River conditions, the flow is a strong reminder of which way you're going.

also done it on a scooter, and done missed it swimming once but realized my mistake once i hit the harper tunnel.

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Originally Posted by nakatomi

I hate to disagree Forrest but the lines as they are now are very obvious. My hat is off to Dominick for posting about this though, that takes guts and is going to help others.
Awareness is one of the keys and needs to be focused on more during training.

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I imagine I am going ot keep making mistakes while learning. As long as I survive them I plan on sharing.

Are the arrows every 100' not there any more?

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Originally Posted by FW

I have done the same thing on a scooter. Before they re-lined Little River, it was easy to miss the second T. It still would be easy, if you aren't paying attention.

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By the way Forrest, I really appreciate this section of the forum and the idea of sharing our learning experiences and/or near misses. It makes it more concrete for me to share it with others.

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Originally Posted by nakatomi

I hate to disagree Forrest but the lines as they are now are very obvious. My hat is off to Dominick for posting about this though, that takes guts and is going to help others.
Awareness is one of the keys and needs to be focused on more during training.

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I don't think we disagree. One can miss anything if they aren't paying attention.

Definitely a reality check once we got to the Florida room T I realized I hadn't been paying enough attention to navigation as much as I had been trying to look like a badass for the camera. Lesson learned


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I think a lot of instructors don't stress awareness enough. In Mexico I think they often go a little overboard with removing / swapping directional arrows in classes but they seem to put a greater emphasis on it than what most Florida instructors do.

I've been on at least five dives where a member of my team missed either that T or the one farther in, so don't feel bad about it and thanks for sharing. The only advice I have to offer is to pay close attention to where you are going. I've also been in parallel lines and Angel's Fear in Ginnie multiple times where my buddies (with hundreds of cave dives) have missed a T. It only takes a minute of distraction to go the wrong way and a camera (or survey, or dpv, or other activity) tends to add distraction to the dive.

Hey, you did look like a badass!

:)

inb4 the call to remove gold line T's

Dominick,


My wife and I had a wakeup call, kind of similar in France. Theres is a cave that bifucates then comes back together. It has a notoriously hidden T, and the lines in France are not nice like here. On the way in we saw the T from the high side and marked it. The line was exactly the same as the main line and drops down to the other side of a rock ledge. On the way out we saw a yellow line coming down to the mainline we were exiting on. The thin yellow line was coming from the back side of a rock. We assumed it was a jump and continued along since it was nothing like the line we saw from the top side. After a couple of minutes, the cave looked different and our exit time didn't fit our time on the way in. I knew the cave map well, so I knew we were in the lower section exiting as opposed to the upper we came in through. Rather than distressing my wife, I continued the exit. Several minutes later she turned to me with "I think we just killed ourselves eyes" and a note in her wetnotes that said "R we lost". I gave her a smile and a signal to continue on. The whole exit she hoped I was right, but secretly thought I may be going the wrong way. After the dive we had a long sit down debrief on situational awareness and making sure both team members know the cave map thoroughly ( I did, she didn't). Once back at our chalet, our local contact smiled and laughed because the T is missed on a regular basis. The reason is it's very hidden and the line setups in France are non-standard and change monthly sometimes. At the time this particular line was patched together with several different types and colors of line. We saw the white side coming in, but couldn't see the yellow line tied into the white on the opposite side.


So I get that stuff happens and applaud you sharing. It's how we get better and learn. It can happen to anyone, as it did my wife and I.


But, just an added opinion....Everyone's been pretty easy on you since they know s*it happens. But to miss that huge ass T in little river and nobody in a 3 man team not realize it until you make it back to the Florida room? That's pretty bad. While that huge T can be missed it's not that hard to miss. Especially in a team of 3. And making it all the way back to the florida room and not realizing how far off of time you are is a pretty huge miss in it's own right. I'm not "scolding" you, but I think it's time reassess a few things:


-If you're missing the split T in Little River, then maybe reassess if you really need to be taking photos. Photos are like a scooter, you need to have your crap together before considering adding it to your diving. I think at least Abe Davis level


-If your team of 3 all missed the T and got that far back into the cave, you all really need to reassess your team skills. I would consider that 3 solo divers following each other blindly, which is not a team.


Again, I commend you airing the mishap. Most people wouldn't. When we had our screw up my wife and I took a day off of diving to do some strong assessments of our diving. At the end of it all we came up with it just being a mistake. We never again will assume an odd line is a jump. Any unknown connecting line gets close examination. So I think taking a really contemplative look at the situation together with your teammates is a smart idea.

So, I can chime in on this one. It was just a few months back, my buddy and I had taken the shortcut tunnel between the Ts on the merry go round side. I was #2 diver, so first out as we were exiting. As my buddy was wrapping up the jump reel, from the short-cut tunnel, I slowed to let him catch up. I did not immediately see his light, so I did a quick look-back. Once I confirmed he was right behind me, I turned straight to head "out".

That quick "look back" in High flow was all it took for me to blow right by the Triangle. It was only a few seconds before I got that sinking feeling, that something was NOT right. I don't even think it was the flow, but the direction of the cave was all wrong. A couple more fin kicks and a line arrow confirmed, that I was going in the wrong direction. The problem at that point, was that It was not clear how I had gotten turned around. I thought: how could I have possibly missed that big @$$ arrow.

My buddy was still right behind me, so I turned, and gave the thumb. Withought any fuss, we swam back to the arrow and safely out. FWIW, post dive, my buddy said he noticed me blowing past the arrow, but wanted to let me figure it out. Not thrilled about that... I would prefer signals and a WTF signal in the future. :-/

To the OP, ..I know the flow is way down, and it's not hard for that to change some of the aspects of this dive.

Having said that, you did swim past a couple sets of double arrows that should have given you a clue that you were going back into the cave.

Glad it all turned out ok!

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Originally Posted by EGIB

I've been on at least five dives where a member of my team missed either that T or the one farther in, so don't feel bad about it and thanks for sharing. The only advice I have to offer is to pay close attention to where you are going. I've also been in parallel lines and Angel's Fear in Ginnie multiple times where my buddies (with hundreds of cave dives) have missed a T. It only takes a minute of distraction to go the wrong way and a camera (or survey, or dpv, or other activity) tends to add distraction to the dive.

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My first time on the parallel line I missed the first T. Didn?t know it until I turned on thirds. Then saw it. Was glad I had studied the map and familiar with the hill 400. Went back the next day and did it again but did not do any of the T?s. Then the next day went from the other direction. Still have a cookie on the first one. Need to go back and get it [emoji3]


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I had a similar experience in Jackson Blue about 10 years ago, on a scooter. Exiting, went on the merry-go-round, crusing along and then I saw the same marker again. Awareness is key - Cameras and task loading are typically the culprits.

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Originally Posted by mfascuba

I had a similar experience in Jackson Blue about 10 years ago, on a scooter. Exiting, went on the merry-go-round, crusing along and then I saw the same marker again.

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JB can be a real bi***, here is my story. The first time I scootered past the 3rd T I got hung up real bad. It was horrible!
Ended up doing 5-6 full loops on the circuit at the 4th T right at the very end of the rabbit hole and went back out the upper route to the 3rd T by the Kings Canyon.
In between, at the 4th T, I waitet at the stop light each time for it to change to green but the darn thing wouldn't so I just kept turning right on red.
Glad that stupid red light was on the way in and not the way out...

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Originally Posted by nakatomi

JB can be a real bi***, here is my story. The first time I scootered past the 3rd T I got hung up real bad. It was horrible!
Ended up doing 5-6 full loops on the circuit at the 4th T right at the very end of the rabbit hole and went back out the upper route to the 3rd T by the Kings Canyon.
In between, at the 4th T, I waitet at the stop light each time for it to change to green but the darn thing wouldn't so I just kept turning right on red.
Glad that stupid red light was on the way in and not the way out...

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:roll:

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Originally Posted by Silverhippi

I started making photographs on the trip out. Plenty of images of the middle divers fins. Everything is going smoothly, the cave is amazing, we made it to the "T" to Merry-go-Round and pulled cookies. I continued happily making photographs as we continued to exit, or at least I thought we were headed to the exit. It seemed like it was taking a bit longer than usual to reach the big arrow leading to the exit.

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I know you are fairly new, so this may not have been something you have seen

http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...n-Cenote/page2

There has been a lot of discussion about this accident,but the question has come up, if the instructor/guide was focused on their team mate, would they have survived? Other things about this dive don't add up too,but one thing to consider, if someone is focusing on a piece of equipment, then their thought process is distracted from the team and situation that is going on.

If you are diving with a photographer you really need to watch out for them. It is easy for them to get distracted and miss a navigational decision. I have been told Wes hired a safety diver just for this on his photo shoots.

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Originally Posted by bamafan

If you are diving with a photographer you really need to watch out for them. It is easy for them to get distracted and miss a navigational decision. I have been told Wes hired a safety diver just for this on his photo shoots.

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I once had a photographer drag a team of three of us approx 400? in the wrong direction, and away from our scooters.
Fortunately we were only 330? deep and 3000-4000? into the cave.
Had it been a serious dive, we could have been in trouble. We did manage some pretty cool pics that day.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...380189f20d.jpg


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We heard about this at the CDS Winter Workshop at Hart earlier this year. Classic stuff, and yes, beautiful images!