Printable View
Think of your valves as a set of motorcycle handlebars,gas[throttle on]and off are the same.Even though a motorcycle only has a right hand throttle,the principle still works with a left hand throttle and an imaginary throttle out the back of your head.
oops the left valve will be the opposite,gets you thinking though.
Clockwise closes... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by stairman
Safe diving,
Rich
We all work water faucets (hot and cold) everyday washing our hands and such. No different at all and no confusion for left and right hands (or posts).
you can also tatoo ,backon,on your right hand and backoff on your left.just kidding.anyway ive confirmed my apprentice class in june with Jill,cant wait!
I dont think the cavediving workbooks I have go into enough detail on any proper sequence to shut down leaks.Its something I plan on practicing more this summer,and reading other peoples point of veiw cant hurt.Not that Im looking for free cyberspace training but it is a forum for cave brains to type.
When in doubt, isolate first.Quote:
Originally Posted by stairman
When opening the left post with manifolded doubles on your back visualize your left hand grasping and turning the valve in such a manner that your hand & knuckles rotate forward, or to your front.
That brings gas toward you.
Anyway..thats how I explain it.
I found a manifold failure flow chart on another web site http://www.bitz.fsnet.co.uk/bitzmani...owcharthtm.htm if anyone's interested.
I'm probably going to regret crawling out of my hole to post, but it's late, and I'm bored. I've seen a link to this flow chart before, I can't remember if it was here or TDS. I'll admit up front that I'm a novice Apprentice Cave diver, but I'm pretty sure the last thing I want to think about if I have a gas problem is this flow chart. I'd much rather isolate first and go from there, and then the worst case is that I've saved half my remaining gas which is enough for me to exit, even if I dove to thirds and was at my maximum point of penetration when the problem occured.
I remember discussing this flow chart on this forum before. I seem to remember that many cave divers thought that it was not the best process for isolating a leak in manifloded doubles either.
Ok,so maybe the flow chart isnt such a great idea.Sooner or later Ill post something somebody likes.I know people who read off this site daily but never post.Every subject discussed will have yays and nays.We all share a common hobby,but opinions seem to vary,and thats a good thing.Im not gonna be gunshy about posting comments though.I invite constuctive critisisum,its an ongoing learning journey this cavediving for me right now.Im in my information junkie mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDiver33
You lurked for a year and a half, and that was your first post? Didn't I see you consult a laminated copy of that flow chart during your last pre-dive check? :twisted:
I don't really think I'm qualified to provide criticism, constructive or otherwise. For me though, if I have problem, I just want my body to do the right thing, and if all I have to remember is to isolate, I think that's more likely to happen than if I have to think about a motorcycle or a flow chart. I also practice valve shutdowns just about every time I'm doing deco, especially since I have ample time when Bob convinces me not to take an O2 bottle on dives at Little River :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by stairman
I take a laminated flow chart with me on all dives. That's the only way I can remember which way to turn the knobs. Good thing I had it last time I needed to shut down my valve because I woudn't have remembered which way was which without that flow chart. :oops: Anyone want to learn gas management tips from me, I'll be more than happy to show you my ways :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Hey Jordan, laminating and refering to it while an emergency is something conjured up in your mind for laughs. Some of you regulars should remember that this site is open to all who dare to post. Newcomers as well as the seasoned pro. My training so far has lacked any valve managment. Perhaps my apprentice class on monday morning will shed more light on something that I may be upplaying. Getting an attaboy from one's peers seems to be the norm on here. That's ok too, my feelings haven't been hurt yet and I look forward to filling my trash bag at Lafayette in august with the rest of you.
My instructors talked about motor memory. Take a flowchart if you need it, or rev your bike, or have a buddy watch and correct you. Just get in the water and do it like 100 times. get a system going and do it the same every time until your arm and hand and fingers just do it while you think of other things....build motor memory.
-skip
Hi, I'm just curious... I've noticed that several people have stated that they think the best solution to this problem is simply to isolate. I would think that it would be better to take the time to practice closing and opening your valves until it becomes second nature. Perhaps, make it part of your end-dive routine until it becomes automatic. It seems to me that if a person's first response is just to isolate, then you would be willingly throwing away up to half of your remaining gas. I suppose this would not be a problem if the exit went without incident. However, I don't think I would be comfortable with that just in case any other issues were to arise. I am a fairly novice cave diver so I could be way off base. Any opinions / advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Jordon,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Your method of valve shut down means they have to spend 8K first so they can copy you on your machine. LOL After thinking about that the flow chart looks more appealing..... But really a flow chart, KISS rules Practice the drills seems the simple way to go!
Tom
Yeh, and who can tell direction under water?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
I have had gas loss a couple times in a cave. Never could tell from where untill the offender was shut down and the bubbles stopped coming.
Dale
In any gas emergency, my first response would be to get on my reserve gas (if solo, a buddy bottle; if buddy diving, his/her long hose), start exiting, and then fool around with solving the problem while exiting. If you've been following the rule of thirds, solving the problem isn't mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by zlyrack
You just have to take it further. You isolate first to ensure you have saved at least half your gas, which will be enough to get you back out unless you are at the very end of your third. Anyway, you isolate first, then identify and solve the problem, so unless its a neck o-ring or isolator o-ring you will regain access to the gas in both tanks after you shutdown the offending reg.Quote:
Originally Posted by zlyrack
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the info!