Laying Line in a Formerly Abandoned Mine

I have acquired land rights for two large (clear watered and and beautiful) flooded Arizona mines.

ROV work comes first, and only after ROV assessment will any real work be done. Real work for the first year is removing cables, softening hazardous edges, removing sharp metal, removing old machinery/dewatering pipes.

I intend on doing this work solo (pairs). This is an open invitation for adventurous folks who are patient, willing to wait, not trespass and dedicated to preserving the history of the property.

Abandoned mines and the federal government are very touchy for good reason. They are absolutely dangerous, left unsealed they kill the foolish. When occupied and unsecured they do the same. Artificial caves kill divers.

Eventually this mine will be dewatered. I have a few years before any real mining needs to be demonstrated and even then BLM accepts scientific research as work. I don't ever expect to get this land converted unless I fix my karmic balance. Who knows.

Since this post is filled with controversy already, please don't say the obvious. We all know the risks. This is my land and I only want to share this small slice of cool desert water with serious individuals.

If this turns into arguments, I'm closing the thread.

PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN ! seriously would love to see some video or something

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Originally Posted by kylejones982

PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN ! seriously would love to see some video or something

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Can do, when I return from Tucson I will upload a little bit. For obvious reasons (recognizable to locals), I have to obscure the entrance and danger warning sign with the grid coordinates.

I'm local and depending on travel plans, should have most of May off if you'd like some support. I've got a lot of familial history from Tombstone on south to the border. I'd be interested in what you find out.

I'm headed to Florida with my rebreather for a bit before work, then may or may not be back end of the month.

Sounds like a once in a life time opportunity!


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Sounds nice. Curious on the pics. We have some divable mines in Europe too. Dove mines in Germany, Belgium, France, Slowakia.All have their own history.

I'll be thinking of this as I drive across country on I-10 this Wednesday. Years ago I talked with the W'berg mine/museum owners north of Phoenix about this possibility. Too much liability they said.
When my family lived in LA county for a couple years in the late 70s, my brother and I explored a couple of mines in the San Gabriel Mountains, with one multi-tiered with old wooden ladders. I went back to find them in the 90s and they were blocked off with steel doors, etc.
I've always loved the history of the old West and mines are right in there with that.

Where in Arizona is the mine?

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Originally Posted by lungwater

ROV work comes first, and only after ROV assessment will any real work be done. Real work for the first year is removing cables, softening hazardous edges, removing sharp metal, removing old machinery/dewatering pipes..................Eventually this mine will be dewatered..

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Not sure I understand the purpose of this project. If the place is going to be "dewatered", then why the need to send in cave divers to remove cables etc? Is the purpose of the cave divers to remove these hazards for preparation of the mining work?

The BLM {Bureau of Land Management}is the reckoning US Government force that controls most everything of any value, land, rivers or otherwise. I've explored some potential flooded mines in Summit County, Colo & can tell you that these mines are risky business at best, and contain serious breakdown, and timber rot thru out them. They are not worth the risk of life to even attempt to dive them. A team of tech divers from Denver ck'd them out a few years ago and found them to be securely gated shut by the BLM with warning signs posted. They are high altitude mine shafts {above 10,000ft}which represents a complex set of deco tables.
But your idea seems intriguing. I just would not pursue it. In my opinion a costly and dangerous idea at best !

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Not sure I understand the purpose of this project. If the place is going to be "dewatered", then why the need to send in cave divers to remove cables etc? Is the purpose of the cave divers to remove these hazards for preparation of the mining work?

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Dewatering will not happen for quite a long time. Part of this is because I want to enjoy the damn thing for a few years AND if the mine isn't fruitful it is cheaper to dive than shore, dewater, dig collapses, shore etc...

Cost of maintaining a claim is a bit more than 150 US dollars a year. If you can prove you have done "real work" on a site it goes down to 10 a year (a bit more but you see the point).

Removing cable, taking samples, removing and replacing rotten shoring all constitute real work. This keeps the cost of a small desert oasis to almost nothing (compared to commercial sites or five hour drives).

Plus, although I haven't responded to anyone yet, there are more than a few people who asked me here whom I will certainly send the invitation out to. I am taking my time with this. I want to ensure safety of others using my property.

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Originally Posted by mikeny

Where in Arizona is the mine?

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Cochise, near the border.

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Originally Posted by JE

The BLM {Bureau of Land Management}is the reckoning US Government force that controls most everything of any value, land, rivers or otherwise. I've explored some potential flooded mines in Summit County, Colo & can tell you that these mines are risky business at best, and contain serious breakdown, and timber rot thru out them. They are not worth the risk of life to even attempt to dive them. A team of tech divers from Denver ck'd them out a few years ago and found them to be securely gated shut by the BLM with warning signs posted. They are high altitude mine shafts {above 10,000ft}which represents a complex set of deco tables.
But your idea seems intriguing. I just would not pursue it. In my opinion a costly and dangerous idea at best !

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Risky for certain. I do eventually plan on sharing this site with those who asked me and only if I feel it to be as safe as the other mines I have explored.

Having lived in Colorado for a while, it seems like everything dive related is more treacherous. The altitude is a bit of a hassle, and the BLM mines out there are quite hazardous and remote.

We have a metric ####-tonne here, and a lot of the BLM land is relatively flat, making transport and prospecting easier.

If you are interested in seeing a lot of pictures of Arizona mines (and US mines in general) check out minedat, an excellent resource.

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Originally Posted by Germie

Sounds nice. Curious on the pics. We have some divable mines in Europe too. Dove mines in Germany, Belgium, France, Slowakia.All have their own history.

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Compared to many of the popular sites, most of the mines in my region are quite claustrophobic. Many tunnels just wide enough to run tracks and a hopper, just as many only shoulder width. Raises up and down between drifts are equally small.

They can be very rewarding and terribly treacherous at the same time. Initially exploring them and avoiding nests of cable, metal rods and machinery can be more than hair raising. Sometimes, collapsed shoring and bubbles create the perfect scenario to dissolve the ceiling and the site is too risky for me. Most sites are too risky for me. I like this one so far.

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Originally Posted by WEPIV

I'll be thinking of this as I drive across country on I-10 this Wednesday. Years ago I talked with the W'berg mine/museum owners north of Phoenix about this possibility. Too much liability they said.
When my family lived in LA county for a couple years in the late 70s, my brother and I explored a couple of mines in the San Gabriel Mountains, with one multi-tiered with old wooden ladders. I went back to find them in the 90s and they were blocked off with steel doors, etc.
I've always loved the history of the old West and mines are right in there with that.

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A lot of the more dangerous ones now are filled with foam and the larger adits are caged and used as bat roosts for endangered bats.

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Originally Posted by lungwater

Risky for certain. I do eventually plan on sharing this site with those who asked me and only if I feel it to be as safe as the other mines I have explored.

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From what I understand you aren't a cave diver nor have overhead training, what experience do you have in the overhead with mines? For people wanting to be involved in a project of this magnitude and danger, it may be good to give information on what to anticipate. Only reason I have concern, another project similar to this that brought people together with different backgrounds and experience, resulted in a fatality.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

resulted in a fatality.

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I still think about him from time to time

Geologically, Washington pretty much sucks for underground diving. We have almost no limestone at all and our mineral deposits actually diminish as you descend unlike in drier more sedimentary regions (a consequence of the geology). So most mines weren't dug very deep. That said I have managed to dive four different mines here. There are a few more which are on inaccessible private land or I suspect have serious water quality issues. They're really cold and generally pretty short penetrations. Good luck on your "claim", sounds like a good time - I wish we had something that substantial that hadn't been patented here.

How does this compare to the mines at Bonne Terre?? Isn't it basically the same thing?

Tim, Bonne Terre's set up for tourists, you have to know someone to get a "cave dive" there.

Safe diving,

Rich

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Originally Posted by Rich

Tim, Bonne Terre's set up for tourists, you have to know someone to get a "cave dive" there.

Safe diving,

Rich

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My point was.... why isn't Bonne Terre considered unsafe.... they are both mines yet Bonne Terre is safe enough to have tourists and this mine in Arizona is considered out right dangerous.

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Originally Posted by twaldo

My point was.... why isn't Bonne Terre considered unsafe.... they are both mines yet Bonne Terre is safe enough to have tourists and this mine in Arizona is considered out right dangerous.

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I may be wrong, but as I recall Bonne Terre is a mine that is not completely flooded, airspace above divers.

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Originally Posted by rblackburn

I may be wrong, but as I recall Bonne Terre is a mine that is not completely flooded, airspace above divers.

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True, and it has lights strung over the water.

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Originally Posted by FW

True, and it has lights strung over the water.

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Well.... both of those explanations pretty much cover it... I'm guessing geology (type of rock) probably plays into it as well.....

and tunnels in Bonne Terre and massive and not supported by rickedy setup...

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Originally Posted by rjack

Geologically, Washington pretty much sucks for underground diving. We have almost no limestone at all and our mineral deposits actually diminish as you descend unlike in drier more sedimentary regions (a consequence of the geology). So most mines weren't dug very deep. That said I have managed to dive four different mines here. There are a few more which are on inaccessible private land or I suspect have serious water quality issues. They're really cold and generally pretty short penetrations. Good luck on your "claim", sounds like a good time - I wish we had something that substantial that hadn't been patented here.

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I spent almost one year in Portland and the surrounding Washington environments & enjoyed some great times with the NSS Grotto from Oregon City. Most memorabile is the week end spent under the flanks of St. Helen's exploring Little Red River Cave, which is gated and controlled by the NSS. This is nearly an all day trek crawling and climbing black lava walls and floors, finally ending in a tiny little lake at the bottom. No more than 5" deep. I cannot recall how long this cave was, but it took us nearly 8 hours to reach the lake at the bottom. This was a time when storys were told around a camp fire, and the good company we shared. Truelly, this was one of my most enjoyable trips into our world of the underground. a year after this trip, St Helen's blew her top off the lid ! Little Red River survived this volcano, so I've been told. It is only accessable by NSS members and must be led by a qualifed guide ! Google this for more info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHaAPpW-fqE
http://www.oregongrotto.com/washingtoncaves.shtml
http://www.farnellfamily.com/newslet...ed-river-cave/