Did you know that Devils is on the list, I had no idea we were exploring such a dangerous cave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2SAudt3bZo
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Did you know that Devils is on the list, I had no idea we were exploring such a dangerous cave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2SAudt3bZo
Uhh :roll:
I'm confused. They talk about Devil's Ear, Devil's Eye and Little Devil.
But the video appears to be Devils Den in Williston???
I'd say they're pretty clued out, to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschaut
Wow. What an awesome video. I'm surprised I'm still alive. That dude has taught me so much. Bwahahahaha.
When the video starts with "putting on your flippers", I am done.
Jeeze, where to start? Eagles Nest 315 meters?! If you rate the safety of caves by the number of deaths, the Ballroom at Ginnie is #1 (before it was grated), and #2 is Royal Spring. There is no cave that has had 150 deaths. Pictures of Mexican caves when he is talking about US caves, "Trim-ix" :roll:
If anything, he is tempting untrained divers to try cave diving.
Ummmm... ok. So much misinformation it’s aggravating. Apparently EN is over 1k’ deep. Ginnie also connects to Devils Den. I guess Blue Grotto is aka Eagles Nest Sinkhole.
Trim-ex. Excellent!
They did not mention that cave in Romania below the abbey with all the parasites and exploding scooters.
You mean "The Cave" in Romania :rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
They forgot the Esa'ala Cave also, although its more of a sump system in New Guinea.
It is, as we now know. FTR, there are some parts of DD that have Grim Reaper signs and in which one might get into a little trouble if they venture beyond the grating (which is possible with certain water/tide levels). But... still... :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by gschaut
Anyway, I find more often that the MSM works that way, these days. They know the value of "imagery." They also know that the "sheeples" (their primary target audience) will not care how "accurate" a story or the imagery is... They pray on the "sheeples' emotions." So, rather than show the "correct" imagery or convey the "correct" story, they portray what comes as close as they feel necessary to the "truth" (i.e. what the "sheeples" will believe to be true) but invokes the maximum emotional response.
A couple of classic MSM examples (apologies for the OT, but...)...
1) The "Poster Child" for Capital Punishment - In almost every story the MSM does about Capital Punishment or a scheduled execution, the MSM will, more often than not, show this picture:
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/attac...53&cid=1&stc=1
This is the execution chamber at the Walls Unit, Huntsville, Texas. Even if the story isn't about a Texas execution, they (MSM) will, more than likely, lead with this picture. Why? Because Texas does the most executions, this is the image the "sheeples" seem to associate most with Capital punishment and the death penalty in general. The MSM wants to enforce that association as something that would encourage an anti-death penalty mindset.
2) Casey Anthony - Very sadly, there are a number of stories about parents who falsely report their children "missing" but it turns out they actually murdered their children. Maybe the story will get some local media coverage... perhaps even some National MSM coverage. But they are quickly forgotten. I bet not everyone remembers the name Susan Smith of South Carolina... one of the first cases to have national MSM attention in recent decades.
So, what made Casey Anthony.... CASEY ANTHONY?
It was this photo:
http://www.cavediver.net/forum/attac...52&cid=1&stc=1
The MSM knew that plastering the airwaves with this photo of Caylee would invoke the highest level of emotion from the "sheeples." Maybe it was also Casey's looks herself (and her reported behavior) that contributed, but that was after the "crisis" point of Caylee being missing. The thing that got the sheeples fired up was this picture of Caylee.
Point being (in the context of this thread), Devil's Den is probably a more alluring image than the Eye or Ear (or little Devils). I think it would get the attention of the sheeples. I'm thinking that they (MSM) want them to pay attention to what they're hearing about how "dangerous" these alluring cave systems are, but I think this will backfire on the MSM. Like others, I agree it will probably cause more untrained divers to try it. :smt075 I sure hope the MSM aren't trying to encourage more people to do something so "dangerous" that they get to report more death stories... :smt013
That said, the narrative in re: the "Devil's" system seemed fairly accurate if you were talking about Ginnie only. Maybe the MSM just F'ed up and used the wrong imagery (quite possible), or maybe they deliberately used the DD imagery as "mis-direction" to steer people away from the real Devil's system (and, thereby, discouraging divers from going beyond their training, etc.)... But if I were the DD owners, I'd sue these guys for associating their site with bad things... :smt018
BTW, my take on the "ratings" in this video I think were more along the lines of *not* so much the "number of deaths" but the "number of deaths that got the attention of the MSM and were the most covered/reported by them." A death at EN makes news. So does a death at Ginnie, combined with the systems being called "Devils... etc. etc."
Again, what invokes the highest level of emotion with the "sheeples."
PS. I've dived the "Blue Hole... " in Belize. If you go with an organized tour boat (e.g. "Sun Dancer," etc.), they won't allow you to get into trouble. They only let you go so far down, and for so long (about 10 min. at 110 fsw max). They don't let you dive Nitrox (EAN 32). They make you dive Air. And then they enforce a "mandatory" deco schedule (without it looking like it - 10min at 70 fsw, 20 at 40 fsw, 30 at 20 fsw or something along those lines).
The earth is flat
Hey Mag, you off your meds again? You have to get the pills, you can't suck the lithium out of old batteries.
Hey, it has always worked for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
OK, so I would imagine that most of us disagree with the caves that were featured in this video as being the "7 most dangerous."
What, then, in your opinion *are* the "most dangerous" caves and what makes them so more "relatively" dangerous when compared with one another? Yes, any cave can be dangerous if dived incorrectly or by someone not sufficiently trained/experienced for it. What makes your list the "most dangerous" for you? Is it the depth? Restrictions? Level of passage "mazes?" Not "lined" properly or sufficiently? Level of Silt? Could it also be the "allure" of the cave (people hearing about the danger and wanting to try it)?
Unfortunately for me, my experience with different caves is limited pretty much to the FL "training/tourist" caves, but I know of some others that are beyond my level and that I *might* get to at some point, but I'm not really itching to get to without the proper "progression" in my training/experience (I'm not yet "trim-ix" :grin: certified Maybe someday).
Thus, for me, the top 3 "Most dangerous caves" I haven't yet done based on "depth, deco & gas mgt." would be:
#3 Eagle's Nest
#2 Diepolder III
#1 Diepolder II.
And, oddly enough, what's really frustrating is that the Diepolders are the closest caves to where I live (I'm in Pasco County and they're Hernando). :smt013
For "Navigation, passage and lineage" reasons, the "most dangerous" caves I haven't yet done would be much of the Tulum systems... the primary one being the :
#1 Calimba to Bos Chen Circuit (classic route). - I actually would like to do that one if I ever get to Tulum, but I'm not really itching to go there, either.
As for "Restrictions" - I really don't care to do restrictions. I may go "sidemount" at some point, but that's more for not wanting to carry backmounted (manifolded) gas anymore and having to lug it around. And I'm nowhere near considering CCR. Not no way... not no how. It will take a lot to convince me that the technology is sufficiently reliable that all it will take is a reasonable level of "attention to detail" to be successful with it. I'm not opposed to paying "attention to detail..." I can be extremely attentive to detail (as and IT guy, I have to be). :grin: But, until the units do things like automated CO2 monitoring, etc. etc., I'm not getting anywhere near them. And, they're pretty expensive, still!
So, what are your "most dangerous caves" and why?
:popcorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by mag3
Nothing particularly dangerous here..
Just follow the rules of a continuous and marked guideline and it is all good..
As for not itching.. you should Calimba and Bosh (Box) Chen to me still are the jewels of the area..
In BM.. hmm.. might become a bit tricky to do it all.. For the sake of the cave you will need to drop your stage before the Boa restriction in order to protect the cave.. Not undoable to pass with a stage pushed forward and doing no damage but then you will have to be veeeeery sensible and careful.
Without a stage you wont get far into Bosh Chen unless you'd have huge tanks which in BM likely will prevent you to get there anyways..
But GREAT dive!
Wow. That video is amazingly terrible on so many levels.
1) Mexico guided cavern dives where the guide takes the customers into the no light zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by mag3
2) Ginnie and Vortex cavern or the aka "safe caverns"
3) Any cave system such as Peacock and Devils where people take it for granted and become complacent, or lack the respect for overhead due to repetition there.
I take it you meant to say: Mexico guided CAVERN dives where the guide takes the OW customers into the no light zone..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
can not see anything dangerous in guides taking trained cave divers into the no light zone?
Would that also include Blue Grotto (beyond Peace Rock)? That was one of the first "deep dives" I did after my OW cert. It was done both for my AOW and also for my basic Nitrox cert. To me, it was a "cave dive" disguised as a deep dive. This was, of course, before they opened up that new "real cave dive" section.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
What, IYHO, are some of the main things that might be missed in those systems due to that "complacency" or "repetition?" I can think of a few...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
1) Not paying attention to changes in current/flow and thus, adjusting the gas plan (i.e. greater conservatism than 3rds)...
2) Not paying attention to the lines and making note of any lines either "in" or "close to being in" disrepair (i.e. loose lines, etc.)...
3) Viz changes and/or silt outs (from a recent diver)...
That, and making visual jumps, in spite of the fact you know it isn't recommended. I hear things like"This is Ginnie, it is safe here" all the time, but there have also been fatalities due to unexpected siltouts, or buddy separation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mag3
Your rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Nitrogenius
I enjoyed watching this documentary...Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
I have heard it was Cadillac motel some times back?Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
We could back to the DV3X days, there were quite a few Hindenbergs. You always wondered when you got on the trigger if you would have a 4th of July displayQuote:
Originally Posted by ARY
That was a Salvo Mojo in the now remodeled "Andrew Ainslie" suite.Quote:
Originally Posted by ARY
In France you have the 'Bial' cave. The entrance is mostly no mount. A couple of times a year people need to dig the entrance out. After the first 7-10m the cave widens and is beautifull. Sadly the first sump is short (80m), but to go the second sump is not that difficult. Most divers never do this cave because of the entrance. The gravel will make it zero viz too. This cave is on my personal list of 'dangerous'. I like it, I dive it, but sometimes I think when I am in the entrance why am I doing this? After the entrance I like it again.
But yesterday, I read that the exit from Catfish to Manatee is now almost blocked so become really dangerous.
Cavediving at all is for outsiders listed as dangerous and diving, even open water diving too. Horseriding is dangerous, skiing is dangerous, driving a car is dangerous. Even staying in bed can be dangerous. My nondiving collegues don't understand that I like cavediving.
Funny that the video was not the Devil's System. It was actually Devils Den in Williston. FAKE NEWSQuote:
Originally Posted by Michael F
Well, I now feel less intelligent than I did 10 minutes ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shellmoundal
I couldn't agree more about this being completely fake news and was horrified to see this BS reporting. What bothers even more is the number of followers this fool has attracted.
The question is will these idiots rally to the "Challenge of Thrill Seeking Adventure" or might this sufficiently scare them away...Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael F
InfamousQuote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With all the danger I've been in and escaped, my new cave diving handle is now Rambo.
Make that Rambo with flippers. Lmao!