Anyone know conditions at Ginnie Springs? Are they open for diving? Hope everyone in the area came through the weather event well. Bill
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Anyone know conditions at Ginnie Springs? Are they open for diving? Hope everyone in the area came through the weather event well. Bill
Called them? They have a lot of trees, so don't doubt they could have some damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Not yet, thought someone here might already know...had a trip planned. Thanks Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Called them and got a recorded message that the office is closed. Nothing on the web site, they may be busy. Bill
Facebook just says they are closed today and will post reopening date after assessing conditions.
EE posted a message on Facebook saying that Ginnie is closed until 26 Sept. They're apparently anticipating record-breaking peak floods on Thursday...(Floods in excess of 35' predicted for Fort White)
Yeah...glad I didn't renew my pass yet.
http://www.weather.gov/serfc/
Good luck Bill. I am reading Ginnie is closed until September 26th, with a major flooding level of 35.5ft. The last major flood for them in 1998 was 32.2, and that flooded out the whole basin -between Devils and GinnieQuote:
Originally Posted by wingman
I remember a flood in the 70s when I parked at Ginnie, and waded to Devil's Eye. It was divable, but the viz was around 40'.
1870s??????................:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Mine expires next week...last time this happened they extended the passes the number of days they were shut...Quote:
Originally Posted by EGIB
Little river was beautiful this afternoon. It looks like it's about to reverse though. No boil and the river still rising
We can always dive it from the river!
Kelly I remember standing there in 1998 at the water line looking DOWN at the vent pipe on the bath house. It was my first time there so I didn't understand the magnitude. My shocked instructor was quickly trying to think of plan B for our cavern course! And this could be worse!
I remember flood of 1998 very well. That is when the "desperate diver" picture was shot by Steve Auer, of John Orlowski walking in waist deep water on the road down from Dive Outpost. If you remember seeing the bathhouse in 1998, this flood will be approx. 3 ft higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by renee
The flood of 1998 was pretty epic. There were alligators crossing 441 in Paynes Prairie.
I heard on the radio this morning that the Santa Fe has flooded out CR 236 and CR 18 just west of Worthington Springs. The river is coming up...
We are already in excess of 10' above flood stage at my home in High Springs. Water has crossed the point it reached in 2012 for the trop storm Debbie flood.
I estimate I have another 4/5' of rise before it starts to flood my house.
They just posted on FB the following:
"Due to flood conditions, we will be closed through Tuesday, September 19th. We plan to reopen as soon as conditions improve. We will post updates on our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and website"
Yes 3 feet higher is disturbing. I'm very concerned for those in N Florida now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Yes indeed as one very large gator actually stopped us northbound on the prairie as we were driving to the hospital around 4 am for my daughter to be born. Made it there with 45 minutes to spare and the nurses at the hospital told others about our gator story after we told them. Still a favorite family story of ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by kensuf
Has the devils system ever reversed that you guys know of? Is this a possibility?
kensuf mentioned yesterday that it did reverse in 2012Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
1998Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
From Ginnie Springs FB Page (should be viewable by everyone)
https://www.facebook.com/GinnieSprin...type=3&theater
The flooding has reached the start of the asphalt path close to the bathhouse
Any idea when the office will reopen?
According to their web page, the office will reopen on Tuesday 9/19. Friend in High Springs says river level is dropping fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Facebook for Ginnie changed yesterday. They are now back to the 26th. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a6bc6475e3.png
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Took a cruise by Ginnie on the Santa Fe yesterday. Water is still high, about 1.5' below the deck top railings. The park looks a bit of a mess. A couple big trees down in the camping area, and picnic tables tossed all over the place.
I could see the red marker ball above The Ear that was just under the surface, but no obvious flow or clear water from the run.
It's tempting to drop down the chain to see if the spring is flowing clear or not.
Latest photo from Ginnie: The bath house is now high and dry. But there is still a foot of water over the banks of the Little Devil run, and covering the parking lot next to the run. Photo on their facebook page.
They will update their plans/opening date on Tuesday.
At that level the cave flows or has in the past. Wonder if anyone dove it during the highest levels to see if it reversed?
According to friends in High Springs, reversal has been documented by river debris (leaves, twigs) being found a distance back into the cave after past floods.
Whether or not reversal occurs depends on BOTH the river level AND the aquifer level. River level must exceed aquifer level to reverse.
From the Ginnie facebook:
The flood waters have dropped about 8 feet, but we still have about 2 more feet to go. Overall, things are looking good, and we're super close to seeing that gorgeous crystal clear spring water again!
We are *hoping* to open by next Friday ( 10/6), possibly sooner if conditions improve quickly. We will let everyone know our opening date by Tuesday (10/3).
they have a video they posted on facebook its seems fine for giving diving a try, i would love to run a line from the stairs and see the conditions.
I've decoed in the eye when the water was high (not to today's levels, anyway), barely making the 20 ft depth on the ceiling in the cavern. I guess diving now would have you deco mid water somewhere in the eye. Not a big deal for a few minutes, but something to consider if planning for lots of deco.
Think I'm going to give it a try by boat this weekend. I will post a report
Hope you named her GATOR ! :) That the American way !Quote:
Originally Posted by WEPIV
No, she wouldn't have liked that, even as a nickname, but it's not a bad 70's Burt Reynolds movie.
I did a quick fly by of Ginnie today from my boat. It looks like clear water is flowing from the eye. You can see the spring pretty but from the surface it looks very green.
The Ear is not visible from the surface at all.
I will be interested to see if there is any trash or tree branches that washed down into either one.
Any updates on Ginnie?
Went by the park yesterday, they're still closed but will update on Wed.
Safe diving,
Rich
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
what alternatives are there for evening diving if Ginnie is still closed on Wednesday?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Probably a whole lot of cigarette butts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
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According to Ginnie's site, they were ready to open on the 3rd, but decided not to with another tropical event possibly headed their way. They are indicating a status update tomorrow.
Ginnie is opening tomorrow, Wednesday 10/11/17.
Fantastic, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
Hey,
Just FYI, Ginnie did reverse. We dove it last night. 40ish feet of vis and a little milky and tannic in pockets. There was river dust around on the rocks and stuff.
Not to stir the pot, but I just read there was a Nonexistent Aimless Cave Diving Social this Friday... ;)
Safe diving,
Rich
Oh noooo. Of course not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Im assuming its minimal flow?
I wouldn't assume that. The river is dropping, so the flow could be high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsgbk9
flow was still pretty stiff on wednesday.
I too dove Wednesday. Flow was nominal, not normal Ginnie high.
Flow felt higher than pre Irma between 2k and the Henkel. Several tie offs were loose between the Henkel and Berman rooms; they are now fixed. Viz was in the low 20's and tannic on hill 400 especially around double lines. Hillier is slightly clearer, but double domes are extremely tannic. The last dome room has ~6" of viz. Bone line and gold line back to Henkel vary from high 20's to 40's.
Very cool dive right now, it feels like a different cave. There is black river silt and debris scattered around the cave and the water is green rather than blue. Definitely carries a spooky river cave feel.
should have come up for HITW. It sparkling in century tunnel and beyond :)Quote:
Originally Posted by inverted_bear
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpicos
I'm not much on zero vis, but sometimes a little tannic and a little dust makes a dive fun and different. Ginnie had a really spooky feel that he was describing. I felt it too and really liked it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Some of the best dives I've had have been in 20ft or less or hazy viz. I hate particulate because of backscatter, but lower viz really is a nice change from time to time.
Had a trip planned to Ginnie just before Irma as my pass was expiring on Sept.29...went yesterday hoping they would let me get a few dives in by extending my pass for the time they were closed (this was what they a while back when they were closed just a week). Anyway no joy my pass was expired and I did not get to dive using it. Wanted to protest but hearing that there was a management change (Rose is gone) I assumed that things may be different there, it will be interesting to watch the silt settle....Bill
What happened to Rose?Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Don't know but rumors abound,Quote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
FiredQuote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
My sources don't know a reason.
Wow, very sorry to hear. The one last connection for cave divers and management to this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
Ouch, I have to agree, Rose was great for the cave diving community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
They did not cut me and slack during a flood several years ago. What ever the expiration date is on your pass, that is it.
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Well, I hope they don't try and pull the same tricks as sams club and backdate your renewal to your expiration date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
And quite frankly I do not understand why anybody thinks that they should cut any slack for such event. If that is not force majeur what is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
And it cant quite be their problem if one did not make proper use of a pass all those times when there was no flood..
Sometimes upsetness is justified by common sense, sometimes it is not.. In this case I strongly think it is the latter..
Having just wrote my statement before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
That would be a justified cause to get upset!
I have renewed several times. There was never even a whisper, a thought, or a hint of back dating. New expiration has always been from the date of renewal. Not certain if smiling helps me, but I am generally courteous and polite. You know, honey instead of vinegar and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
I did not mean it as a bad thing. I understand the policy. I was just making a statement that it happened to me. I said ?ok it was worth a try! ?and moved on. [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrogenius
For some reason ? Marks keep showing up even if I edit. [emoji57]
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It is a bug in the new software, It doesn't seem to recognize many punctuation marks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
Figured something like that ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
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Well, the Chinese don't use them, so who needs them?Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
That reminds me of a book. In the preface, the author said he was going to put all the punctuation on one page, and the reader could place it where ever they wanted to :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Several years ago they extended the expiration date for my pass as a result of a closure so there had been a precedent which was what my expectation was based on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverlee
Was that possibly when Rose was running the show? I've always found her to be much more talented in customer service than most at Ginnie. Extending a pass by a few days costs the resort little to nothing and helps the customer feel much more appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
It certainly is a nice thing and customer friendly approach if they offer such, however it should not set an expectation, as it would not be normal. As well as the customer gets hit by the force majeur the business is already been hit even worse..Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Apart from the money needed to put the place back in order imagine all the losses for the days they needed to be closed.
I can totally understand a business policy that is not offering an extension on such basis..
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
No offense meant to you as the following is a generalized statement.......But that's the problem with doing something "nice" for people. You do it once, and it becomes expected from then on with alot of people. Whereas others of my mindset look at something like that as a nice gesture and am appreciative, but don't ever expect it to happen again.
Cave diving is a drop in the bucket to the ginnie revenue stream, camping forms the base of their revenue. If I recall correctly they did not do it just for me but for all cave diver annual pass holders. The expectation formation process is definitely different across individuals; we all have are cognitive biases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrogenius
I wish they'd sell a few different levels of annual passes, with one including camping. Whatever the fee was, it might be worth it... as long as you have plenty of weekdays off. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
If you're an active cave diver in NFL and you don't have a G pass that kinda makes you a chump, IMHO...
Safe diving,
Rich
Define "active"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I am a chump. I had a Ginnie annual pass for 10 years,but I have lost my appetite for Ginnie, because it is the most beat up cave in Florida. Personally when there is flooding and everything is closed except for Ginnie, I would rather stay home then look at the systematic damage that has occurred over the last couple decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I agree. Some sort of family or guest option would be nice. I have three kids and friends who dive when in town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Feet Under
I also wish they would improve the check in process for pass holders.
I don't agree at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I got a pass last year, and will probably renew at least once, but am pretty sure I won't be willing to pay the $300+ annual fee forever when there are other options.
Sounds like you're doing it wrong if you mean waiting in line to check in. If you pick a long time employee and have your pass visibly in hand, they usually bump you to the front of the line awesomely pissing off the camping dirtballs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
If you mean they should just let annual pass holders drive through the front check in guard house, then I agree. There's no reason the people in the guard house can't look at your card and let you through. I get that they want to mark your car and your wrist as cave divers, but that's honestly pointless. Since Rick stopped working there, there's never anyone patrolling the dive area. And on the rare occassion there is, they're usually smoking cigarettes and bs'ing with their friends.
I gotten lucky like that only a couple times , maybe I'm not being pushy enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
This is exactly what I mean. Maybe have a sign in sheet at the guard shack. I would feel much better about my annual fee if I could skip the check-in process. And the arm band.Quote:
If you mean they should just let annual pass holders drive through the front check in guard house, then I agree. There's no reason the people in the guard house can't look at your card and let you through. I get that they want to mark your car and your wrist as cave divers, but that's honestly pointless. Since Rick stopped working there, there's never anyone patrolling the dive area. And on the rare occassion there is, they're usually smoking cigarettes and bs'ing with their friends.
I do agree with that. It could all happen at the guard shack. Arm bands in my opinion are a waste of time. There's no one checking them anymore, and I don't think I've worn one much further than 10 feet past the guard shack. Once I'm in, it's off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
I've had a Ginnie pass for about 15 years now and while this past year I only went there for about 25 dives or so there have been a few years where i got in well over 100. Yes there is damage, it is probably the most dived cave in Florida and maybe on the planet which certainly explains a lot of that. I still find a lot of very beautiful and undamaged spots especially the further in that you go. I have yet to dive the new section but hope to soon. Not all of us are fortunate enough to have access to many systems that are open to DPVs and solo diving. While my pass just expired i will certainly renew it on my next trip down the week after next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Bill, appreciate your comments. You are right it has huge amount of access, and expect a certain amount of attrition because of this. There is a lot cave damage there that is from carelessness and poor technique, not just normal wear and tear. Ginnie benefits from having as many people there as they can cram in from an economic stand point,but this has removed a lot of aesthetic, and dampened appeal to this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Certainly agree but not ready to write it off. If there was ever a place for conservation and restore wok Ginnie is it. Would like to see areas close off to use for a while and undergo some restorative repair work. Sort of like the nps does for trails in parks. to some extent it is possible to erase handprints, knee gouges, scooter marks etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Are we really gonna go around fixing all the caves? Thats ridiculous. The work done to remove grafitti, fix the whale bones and the clay banks were great. Should we start cleaning up all the caves? Hell no. And I hope the CDS conservation efforts dont move in that direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
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You know Bill isn't too far off. Ideally fix the cave divers that have issues,but being able to address cave damage is critical to future access. The question that has been asked by some land owners is what is happening inside my cave, with the concern for conservation. Dry cavers have secured their access to sites by addressing damage and vandalism, this is a subject we will need to answer in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
In my opinion wide scale "fixing" of the cave could be as bad as the damage already created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Whats been done so far is fine. Pushing that on a grande scale has the potential to cause the same harm as the original damage did. Add to that, if people think the crap they do will be fixed by someone else, the issue will never be resolved.
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Alright, I have got to ask. What is the problem with a scuffed up cave? Does it affect much beyond the aesthetics? I get that a silt out is bad for divers but how does it REALLY affect the cave system?
Aesthetic is obviously a personal experience. To me scuffed cave can suggest poor cave diver technique,but it has man made markings where nature has formed something unique and special. How wonderful would Old Faithful be if there was a billboard next to it advertising the Comfort Inn down the road. Would that NY Strip steak at Ruth's Chris Steak House be equally as enjoyable on paper plates and plastic utensils. These are just examples, and of course there will be contrarians. Most importantly, we have an obligation to be the protector of underwater caves and provide conservation for future visitors,but most importantly our concern and efforts reward us with future access,because trust me there are people who are concerned with the condition of their cave systems, and ask that question frequently. Dry cavers have it right and have gained credibility when it comes to cave conservation. We don't share the same lessons, because we are divers who go into caves, not cavers at heart. The one problem is that most cave divers enter the sport and stay for approximately 3 years, so damage over time isn't really noted as much. I am biased, because I remember these caves 20+ years ago, and compared to now they have really suffered. The irony is that the mid-90s was the boom for cave training with more people entering the sport than even, and the caves were in better shape after that era than now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CHartmann
I'd be willing to bet that most natural formations or parks were in better shape then, irregardless of the number of visitors. Most people don't care about anything or anyone but themselves these days. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Unfortunately self responsibility seems to factor very lowly. If someone is having a bad day and silting a lot, or attempting a passage that is beyond their level, instead of turning and exiting, the need to push on is there, mutually exclusive to the impact that is caused. I did a survey a couple years ago for an article on cave conservation education for UWS, and one factor I found is that newer cave divers cave conservation training was between zero and 30 minutes duration for their course. The NSSCDS and NACD made cave conservation a primary mission,but for some of these other agencies, the education in this area is almost nonexistent. So, how can we expect newer cave divers to have a regard for cave conservation when their education and training to protect the resource practically doesn't exist. So when I say we are generally divers who go in cave and not cave divers, because cavers understand the resource and protect it, we don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Feet Under
Hello everyone, my name is Richard and I'm a Chump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
There are too many diveable caves for me to justify to myself paying $300 to dive just one of them. I may go to Ginnie a couple of times a year. I like the cave, but hate the crowds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rblackburn
Ditto!
If you only dive ginnie 2-3 times a year a pass isnt worth it. Though I will say only having ro fill out that form once a year is awesome. I had a copy from their website I used a pdf editor to complete with all of my info which made life alot easier
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