A second Open Letter to Tom Mount and HQ IANTD

It?s been almost four months since the fatal accident has occured in italian cave Fontanazzi during cave course. Though the accident was well documented and all the diving environment has had an opportunity to asknowledge how unprofessionally the diving during which the diver died, had been planned and run, we still cannot impose IANTD on giving information towards the reasons the instructor has been considered compliant and on why it has been estimated that the instructor had not violated standards, even though it seems obvious that the violation had actually occured.
Arrogant and bold approach of IANTD HQ, that have been tenaciously refusing giving factual answers and seem to follow the rule: ?it is so because we said so?, that suspends the protesting instructors, that threatens or presses charges on them on ethical basis for having questioned their uncompliant?to-standards decision ? forces us to object even stronger. Sweeping the accident under the carpet means to allow the violation of safety standards amongst the instructors be unpunished, which will unevitably increase the number of such accidents.
Therefore, if we do not wish this anarchy and crap in our training courses, we have to fight for our rights. There are 126 IANTD divers who have signed the protest by now, but there was 200 who signed the previous one. So, please get acknowledged with the whole story and with the open letter published below , and if your conscience doesn?t let you walk out on it, please stand with us and sign the letter. The incompetent instructor remains fully eligible, while the deceased student is blamed, and we, the instructors, are being threatened and deprived of our qualifications.
We need the suport of both divers and IANTD instructors from all over the world, because it?s the only way we can be appreciated by IANTD HQ and so the unfair and harmful decision is drawn back. Should this unjustified decision be sustained, this would allow the subsequent standards violations occur, and the fatal accidents would meet no consequences. This will lead further accidents to happen. Please get acknowledged with this letter and broadcast it among all the cave divers and IANTD instructors.
Krzysztof Starnawski ex IANTD IT instruktor

https://www.facebook.com/events/1930579140511487/

Thank you for your courage and very sorry to hear that you got expelled from the agency based on your criticism.
It has happened to other good people before you.

I've signed the letter on facebook and I can only encourage other likeminded IANTD divers to do the same.

Here is a link to a report on the accident; http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...-Solagna-Italy

https://www.facebook.com/events/1930579140511487/

A second Open Letter to Tom Mount dated 22 April 2017.
We are collecting the signatures below the second Open Letter to Tom Mount.
Any IANTD diver can submit their signature in the format:
First name and surname; #IANTD number.
You can also submit your signature via e-mail: [email protected] using the same format: First name and surname; #IANTD number.
Moderator of the site will update the list of people on ongoing basis.

A second open letter to: Tom Mount, IANTD HQ and the QA Board investigating a fatal accident which took place on January 5th in the Italian cave Fontanazzi.

Due to the serious traces of negligence of safety rules, good diving practice and IANTD standards while conducting the Cave course during which the trainee Krzysztof Betiuk was tragically exposed to unnecessary risk and eventually died, we request IANTD HQ to suspend the Andrzej Kruczkowski?s instructor?s permissions again and to disclose full justification of the IANTD?s decision.

1. THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE ACCIDENT

Participants of the cave course:

Andrzej Kruczkowski - cave instructor ITT IANTD (organizer and course leader)
Wojciech Nowak ? student on the grade IANTD cave instructor
Krzysztof Betiuk ? student on the grade cave diver (he died during this course)
Marcel Korkuś - student on the grade cave diver

On 05th January a fatal accident occurred during a technical cave course in the Italian cave Fontanazzi. One of the three trainees died after got stuck in a blind, side narrow corridor. The course was led by ITT IANTD Andrzej Kruczkowski. During the same course a cave instructor course was conducted.

Two days after the accident the candidate for the cave instructor level and participant of this course Wojciech Nowak published the report describing the plan and a sequence of this tragic event (attached below).

The report stated:
The trainees were meant to dive alone within 1 minute intervals, starting from the surface through 30 meters narrow vertical funnel with some restriction along the way. They were supposed to meet the leading instructor at 20-meter depth. There was no fixed gold line connecting the surface with the cave. Krzysztof, who were supposed to dive as the third one, entered the wrong way and few meters further got stuck with head down position in the blind, leading to nowhere route.
This was Krzysztof?s fifth dive during this technical cave course and his fifth cave diving ever. He got stuck so tight that the fourth diver (Wojciech Nowak, the author of the report) who fund him after few minutes was not able to pull him out.
After a quarter or so when the leading instructor returned from the deeper part of the cave (he was in another part of the cave with another trainee during the accident) he was not able to help either and Krzysztof was already dead.
Krzysztof?s body was pulled by the emergency services that needed to take out the body using ropes and pull the cadaver with a few rescuers working on the surface.

2. EXPLANATORY PROCEEDINGS

Andrzej Kruczkowski officially reported to IANTD HQ similar description of this dive. Apart from that the Board appointed by Tom Mount has received the reports of all others participants confirming Wojciech Nowak?s statement that Andrzej Kruczkowski did not supervise tragically dead Krzysztof Betiuk. Nevertheless, IANTD QA Board found that instructor Andrzej Kruczkowski did not violated IANTD standards either good diving practice.

QA Board based on the testimony of all witnesses of the accident and where all participants of this tragic dive admitted to leave Krzysztof Betiuk alone in a cave without supervision, which ended with Krzysztof?s death recognized that the instructor IANTD ITT Andrzej Kruczkowski who was the leading instructor and organizer of this course did not violated standards.

A fragment of the IANTD QA Board statement:

?For it is obvious that there had been no standards violation, which was clearly ascertained by QA Board, consisted on the most experienced and ethical ITT cave instructors, we strongly recommend all of the Andrzej Kruczkowski?s qualifications be retained. Andrzej Kruczkowski is to maintain active teaching status on all of the accomplished levels, due to both QA Board and IANTD HQ decision.?

3. DOUBTS OF THE SYGNATORIES OF THE PROTEST

Polish IANTD Instructors have protested this IANTD QA Board?s decision.
In assessing the violation of standards, the signatories were based on an internal IANTD order.

Standards valid on the day of the accident: THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NITROX AND TECHNICAL DIVERS? (IAND, INC. dba IANTD?) STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES MANUAL FOR RECREATIONAL DIVING INCLUSIVE OF SPORT AND TECHNICAL DIVING Revised: 7/7/2010 ? updated March 2015.

Thorough analysis of the standards and honest evaluation of good diving practise leaves no doubt that during the course the standards were not complied in following aspects:

1. The instructor Andrzej Kruczkowski has planned the dive where trainees were expected to dive alone through a difficult bit of a cave only with a line partially laid without supervision. And so, this dive was conducted.

2. Trainee Krzysztof Betiuk was in side mount configuration to which he was not certified, not to even mention multistage SM. Krzysztof Betiuk had at least three side cylinders (one with air, one with nitrox and one with oxygen) during the dive.

3. The ITT Andrzej Kruczkowski had instructor technical cave IT qualifications despite a reasonable suspicion that he did not meet the requirements to obtain such a degree. Andrzej Kruczkowski has completed the IANTD instructor training in August 2011 and in 2014 he became cave IT despite a reasonable suspicion that he did not meet the requirements. As early as 2015 Andrzej Kruczkowski was nominated for ITT by Tom Mount.

4. There is a reasonable suspicion that student Wojciech Nowak did not meet the requirements to join the cave instructor course which he participated when the accident had place.

5. ?Intro the cave? part was performed in the cave too difficult to do so due to several restrictions on the entry part, that make it impossible to attend more than one person at the time.
All the issues mentioned above had a direct impact on the Krzysztof Betiuk?s fatal accident to occur.

4. DIVERS SOCIETY VS. IANTD HQ

From the e-mail correspondence between IANTD HQ and signatories it follows that:

? IANTD HQ rejected the request, issued by six IT to re-examine the circumstances of the accident. In the application, the signatories pointed out all the issues suggesting that the standards of cave training conducted by Andrzej Kruczkowski were violated. Because of this violations Krzysztof Betiuk, a twenty nine year old participant of this course, died.
? IANTD QA Board, assigned by Tom Mount, to assess the circumstances of the accident, has consisted of the people identified by Tom Mount as the most competent and experienced. Because members of the board remain anonymous, their actual experience cannot be assessed, nor do they remain free from pressure from IANTD HQ to cover up the case.
? In the absence of a response from the IANTD authorities on a written protest, an open letter was issued and signed by 2 ITT, 5 IT, 34 instructors and 153 divers.
In the response to the open letter, members of the organization, including the signatories of the protest, were informed of an immediate tightening of ethical standard on public speaking in the media on the events of January 5, 2017.
Thus, IANTD members were obliged to keep silent under the threat of consequences from the IANTD authorities.

It was seven IT instructors among the signatories of the open letter:
Sebastian Popek, Łukasz Pi?rewicz, Marek Cacaj, Krzysztof Starnawski, Tomasz Żabierek, Roman Virt and Sylwester Peknik.

Sebastian Popek, Łukasz Pi?rewicz and Marek Cacaj were informed, that their IT qualifications would be maintained only if they adhere to the new IANTD ethical standards, which bans negative public speaking in the social media concerning any instructor, instructors? actions and the IANTD organization itself.

Tomasz Żabierek was immediately deprived of his IT qualifications.

Roman Virt, the ITT Instructor, who first informed Tom Mount about irregularities during conducting the course where Krzysztof Betiuk died, yesterday on 18th Apr received a letter informing about immediate removal from the IANTD.

Krzysztof Starnawski, who owns an e-mail account from which signatories have sent protest, was reported by Tom Mount to the Disciplinary Board of IANTD to verify his ethical behavior. The breach of ethical standards would have supposed to concern the correspondence between Krzysztof Starnawski and Tom Mount where Krzysztof Starnawski called on Tom Mount to re-examine the case and to suspend the qualifications of Andrzej Kruczkowski until the circumstances of the accident and the investigation of the prosecution were completed.

Jacek Lubowiecki has been the only IT, who has revoked the protest. As a reward, he has been given a lead of Polish IANTD office starting from the 01st June 2017.

The current situation forces us to question not only the IANTD QA Board?s reliability, but also the doubts about the moral attitudes of Tom Mount and other members of the IANTD Board.
Leaving this at the current stage will be a green light for all IANTD instructors allowing for impunity for safety violations which will inevitably result in further fatal accidents.

Therefore, if you share our opinion, then please sign up under this statement (it is enough to enter your name and certificate number and the position: IANTD instructor or IANTD diver).
If we do not stop this pathology in our organization tomorrow it might impact each one of you as well.

1. Krzysztof Starnawski IT IANTD#3967
2. Adam Leslie INSTRUKTOR IANTD#8203
3. Radosław Zajkowski INSTRUKTOR IANTD#7343
4. Hubert Grzybek INSTRUKTOR IANTD#9025
5. Robert Prince Pawłowski INSTRUKTOR IANTD#8414
6. Tomasz Trojanowicz INSTRUKTOR IANTD#7724
7. Tymek Podg?rczyk INSTRUKTOR IANTD#7779
8. Leszek Gimel IANTD INSTRUKTOR IANTD#9534
9. Rafał Łakomski INSTRUKTOR IANTD#8670
10. Wojtek Komocki INSTRUKTOR IANTD#9092
11. Massimiliano Canossa INSTRUKTOR IANTD#2549 Italy
12. Paweł Gałecki INSTRUKTOR IANTD#9062
13. Jarek Kur INSTRUKTOR IANTD#5068
14. Mariusz Wr?bel INSTRUKTOR IANTD#8323
15. Magdalena Saugut INSTRUKTOR IANTD#9435
16. Tomasz Wci?rka IANTD#171925
17. Marek Łapiński IANTD#174809
18. Robert Much IANTD#161698 IANTD#142061
19. Gerard Maj IANTD#131398
20. Piotr Zadrowski IANTD#169011
21. Tomasz Zapi?r IANTD#171917
22. Paweł Zapi?r IANTD#171918
23. Izabela Rynkiewicz IANTD#169112
24. Grzegorz Świątnicki IANTD#186027
25. Ewa Kruk IANTD#165798
26. Michał Marek IANTD#165121
27. Monika Kurzep IANTD#165608
28. Grażyna Mikulewicz IANTD#164529
29. Katerina Peknik IANTD#108020
30. Marcin Jastrzębski IANTD#140110
31. Oliver J. Albrecht IANTD#146824
32. Ryszard Wolschendorf IANTD#4047
33. Sławek Paćko IANTD#111865
34. Anna Rapp IANTD#62803
35. Stanisław Janicki IANTD#179622
36. Sebastian Bodnar IANTD#162800
37. Robert Gruca IANTD#113186
38. Aleksandra Gruca #113187
39. Rafał Rutkowski IANTD#83755
40. Piotr Krych IANTD#169570
41. Paweł Boruta IANTD#167237
42. Katarzyna Leszczyńska IANTD#170146
43. Mateusz Filipp IANTD#97056
44. Sebastian Prędki IANTD#118090
45. Paweł Seweryniuk IANTD#185064
46. Paniczko Sławomir IANTD#110072
47. Anna Bocheńska IANTD#160942
48. Michał Gignal IANTD#60052
49. Agata Isajew, IANTD#176130
50. Tomasz Siwy IANTD#115540
51. David Zaras IANTD#162137
52. Tomasz Jeżewski IANTD#163700
53. Łukasz Potyra IANTD#77363
54. Jarek Matyga IANTD#171593
55. Agata Wiesiołek IANTD#173621
56. Radosław Bieliński IANTD#110070
57. Robert Goszczyński IANTD #121299
58. Adam Borkowski IANTD#122196
59. Maciej Jarząbek IANTD#175712
60. Sebastian Wąsowicz IANTD#160888
61. Krzysztof Rejer CCR IANTD#173536
62. Bartosz Ciomcia IANTD#144591
63. Michał Stańko IANTD#175607
64. Ania Ciura IANTD#170195
65. Krzysztof Burza IANTD#100885
66. Michał Winek IANTD#82975
67. Katarzyna Kapłan IANTD#82571
68. Łukasz Lechowicz IANTD#67572
69. Michał Gwiżdż IANTD#119299
70. Andrzej Piekarski IANTD#179215
71. Tomasz Machalski IANTD#82529
72. Rafał Duda IANTD#184933
73. Maciej Bulkowski IANTD#163668
74. Aneta Porada IANTD#173435
75. Jarosław Kwiatkowski IANTD#136357
76. Jowita Kozana IANTD#118014
77. Stanislaw Krzeptowski - Sabała IANTD#138648
78. Grzegorz Chimiak IANTD#170200
79. Zbigniew Żytkowiak IANTD#185991
80. Izabela Kruk IANTD#179112
81. Daniel Ostrowski IANTD#161993
82. Tomasz Michura IANTD#130454
83. Adam Seweryn IANTD#101720
84. Małgorzata Machalska IANTD#85238
85. Łukasz Bulsiewicz IANTD#178648
86. Bartek Witul IANTD#170082
87. Jacek Mazur IANTD#176316
88. Andrzej Holka IANTD#119594
89. Tomasz Czubkowski IANTD#169568
90. Izabela Kącka IANTD#185046
91. Dariusz Bułka IANTD#116700
92. Maciek Ogrodnik IANTD#170199
93. Małgorzata Barańska IANTD#136364
94. Bartłomiej Kamiński IANTD#161712
95. Michał Leszczyński IANTD#170147
96. Michał Piekarewicz IANTD#186434
97. Ryszard Gmiter IANTD#108047
98. Krzysztof Puciaty IANTD#16654
99. Robert Karaszewski IANTD#176869
100. Dariusz Dynarzewski IANTD#8002
101. Adam Jaworski IANTD#160900
102. Jarek Macedoński IANTD#170198
103. Monika Ławrynowicz IANTD#117622
104. Paweł Dubiel IANTD#162780
105. Gracjan Stec IANTD #164535
106. Tomasz W?jcik IANTD#77825
107. Robert Malinowski IANTD#175731
108. Tomek Dąbrowa IANTD#119300
109. Jacek Kapczuk IANTD#164475
110. Irena Gilwatowska IANTD#165166
111. Emilian Stęchlicki IANTD#178746
112. Krzysztof Ślusarczyk IANTD#185065
113. Tomasz Płociński IANTD#119541
114. Marcin Tracz IANTD#178725
115. Tomek Rzepecki IANTD#108861
116. Marcin Kr?lik IANTD#176212
117. Chrystian Przybylski IANTD#99122
118. Jacek Marek IANTD#170086
119. Artur Mielcarek IANTD #144637
120. Konrad Małek IANTD#176127
121. Rafał Tomaszewski IANTD#176129
122. Gabriela Gr?zlov? IANTD#135067
123. Agnieszka Bariatien IANTD#178640
124. Piotr Łoś IANDT#161718
125. Paweł Nowacki IANTD#138519
126. Konrad Stachowicz IANTD#171933
127. Jezzy Wo IANTD#???
128. Zbigniew Zborowski IANTD#???
129. Victoria Iwanowska IANTD#???
130. Marcin Jamkowski IANTD#???

What IANTD is doing is downright dishonest, threat of expulsion etc... to any INTD instructor who speaks out about safety if it reflects negatively on the agency. In this case like the recent gran cenote one facts were hoped to be pushed aside, downplayed and forgotten about when instructors are clearly at fault.
I just do not understand why INTD cannot uphold safety standards and act accordingly instead of always trying to cover it up, a and now an official new rule is put in place that any INTD instructor who speaks about, posts or makes public any information that reflects in a negative way on INTD will be terminated from INTD, this is an attempt at making it easier for management to cover up and wrongdoings.

I forgot a letter or I guess my post will be removed....

I LOVE the explanation, since he wasn't being supervised and was left alone, the instructor is not responsible.
It could be that keeping students alive isn't one of the "standards".

You'all seem pretty heated about it, why not just go teach for another agency or form a new one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mdax

You'all seem pretty heated about it, why not just go teach for another agency or form a new one?

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Because students are getting killed? In caves?

And I'm sure we all agree that we don't want that.
It's kind of warped to see how people make a stink when a scooter is used in twin caves or some of the silt in the subway tunnel gets relocated. Yet when students perish in a class it's business as usual and the instructors can keep on teaching.
And no, this is not only one single agency doing it. Just look at last year's fatality during a cave class in Blue Grotto. That instructor is with another agency and still teaching as well.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I wonder if the girl from Blue Grotto got turned into immigration like Steve Lewis did? If she did she should receive a 5 year ban from coming into the US also.

Most of the agencies only care about the money. It seems to me that IANTD is one of the worst. They keep waving the magic wand and handing out instructor cards to just about anyone who can make a buck for them. The only way I see the issue getting resolved is for the agency to get sued when someone dies and it is proven that their instructor never completed any of the prerequisites to actually become an instructor. Nearly every agency is guilty of this as once you get blessed by your buddy at one agency you can crossover to the other agencies with often times little effort if you bs them. Don't worry though the CDS is removing gold line T's from 300' deep caves a couple thousand feet back because that was the only gold line T in North Florida. The industry is really in bad shape and sadly very few seem to really care. There are a few instructors who are speaking out but most won't because all they care about is making a buck.

I agree, if you are lying about taxes or killing people in caves you should be banned from coming to the U.S.
I think it's hilarious that folks who have come here without paying taxes have been punted. I thought the whole orange lunatic in charge would have no positive effect...guess i was wrong on that count.

I also agree the best way to address this is tort/courts, however I'm not sure it will really change anything.

The reason this crap happens is because cave diving is the "pinnacle" of diving in many peoples minds and they want to prove how "elite" they are....without actually doing anything special.
MANY instructors, including most of those posting here do not really fail people on any regular frequency.

Teaching technical and cave diving is super profitable, it will attract scumbags for the rest of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phillip1

What IANTD is doing is downright dishonest, threat of expulsion etc... to any INTD instructor who speaks out about safety if it reflects negatively on the agency. In this case like the recent gran cenote one facts were hoped to be pushed aside, downplayed and forgotten about when instructors are clearly at fault.
I just do not understand why INTD cannot uphold safety standards and act accordingly instead of always trying to cover it up, a and now an official new rule is put in place that any INTD instructor who speaks about, posts or makes public any information that reflects in a negative way on INTD will be terminated from INTD, this is an attempt at making it easier for management to cover up and wrongdoings.

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The worst of it is the secondary consequences out of such behavior.
Those ITTs, ITs and instructors who actually care about safety and upholding high standards, are the ones that speak out and as result get kicked out, revoked or leave for themselves..
Who is left? All those who care less and with that naturally goes the degradation of skills..
And all why? Because of money and the fear of litigation on an institutional level, when such behavior actually is rather opening the agency to such litigation..

Two days after the accident in Fontanazzi, first report was made public and it stated clearly that the diving had been planned and conducted the wrong way. We, polish instructors, have been pointing out the standards violation according to it to IANTD and it was all in vain!
As you can see above, 150 divers and IANTD instructors have signed the recent protest so far. Our demands aren't exaggerated - we merely want IANTD QA Board to reason their statement and the instructor involved be re - suspended until the prosecutor's office official investigation is followed through.
As a reward for this adamant endevour on explaining the circumstances of the accident, I have been punished by expulsion from among the IANTD instructors, and the rest of the instructors have been given obedience forms to be signed, that oblige them to succumb to every decision IANTD is to make. Refusal to sign the form is threatened with refusal of prolonging the elibigility to teach on the subsequent year.
We come from a small country in Eastern Europe, but that doesn't give anyone right to belittle us. We can, of course, move into another federation and we are likely to do so, but should we do, this would be voluntary.
I am accused on acting in unethical way, because I object to the unfair blaming the deceased student for the accident. So now I ask: how would you describe IANTD QA Board distortion of the truth, the decision made under the cover of anonymity?

While this thread is about the standards violation, I have to ask if that is everything you have gotten from IANTD as reason for your expulsion? Or are there proceedings from the QA Board meeting?

Response from IANTD. Don't shoot the messenger :-)

Click below to download.

If IANTD is so bound and determined for everyone to believe them then why don't they release the accident investigation report. If an instructor is supposed to maintain control of the student at all times I just don't see where this was done. From what I have read there wasn't even a reel running to the main line and the student got lost going into the cave where the instructor was waiting. Between this and the accident at Grand Cenote I have absolutely zero faith in IANTD.

I am representing the Arriaga Family and we have had an ongoing investigation for 5 months since Amy Arriaga lost her life on November 26th, 2016 in the Gran Cenote, Tulum, Mexico. We have recovered all of her dive computer data, made a full map of her dive and she died due to MAJOR IANTD instructor failure, following the basic protocol. He changed the position from number 2 diver to number 1 diver by swimming ahead to video her, he lost sight of her and instead of swimming back from last contact point, he removed all lines, markers, including hers, and left her behind in the cave system. He did not initiate a lost diver search, but reentered the system with half empty tanks, he went to other areas of the Gran Cenote where they have never been, looking for her and eventually gave up. While back on the parking lot looking for new tanks, he took the time to have a cigarette. All of this while Amy was desperately trying to find her way out according to her dive computer data, but couldn't find her lines that her instructor had removed, she eventually ran out of gas and died, a very slow dead while her instructor was having a cigaret at the parking lot. Yet, IANTD did not suspend him immediately, but 48 hrs later he was in the water again with students. We have a VERY serious problem with safety protocol here. I will post a more detailed report, once our 5 months investigation is completed and filed with the Mexican Authorities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FW

Response from IANTD. Don't shoot the messenger :-)

Click below to download.

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Uterly Bull #### and was not applied 5 months ago, when Amy lost her life in the Gran Cenote

wow. this sounds like the beginning of a (warranted) class action suit against the agency.

And you wonder why the other party has been advised to deny, deny, deny? It's a "damned if you do, less damned if you don't" situation. Time will tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FW

Response from IANTD.

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On top of everything else they seriously need a proofreader.

I know a certain person that types the same exact way in Facebook groups... even if he didn't sign it, it's obviously written by him.

Proof reader? Ha! Read the Tao of survival... my 4th grade kid wanted to take a red pen to it and send it back for editing.

Reminds me of the recent United s**t show. The CEO tried to blame the passenger, but the court of public opinion did not take it. They were forced to do serious damage control, settle with the passenger, and implement major changes to their policy.

This might be a bit controversial, but I don't really like going after the instructor and try to prosecute him or her. The reason for this is that I think we should expect a high degree of personal responsibility when people want to get into cave diving or deeper technical diving. If the students had been reading the bare minimum of cave diving theory they should have known going into a cave without a continuous guideline leading back into to open water is stupid and dangerous. So if an instructor suggested doing otherwise on a course they should ask for the money back instead of just doing it because the instructor said so.

That being said I agree with the ex-IANTD instructor here and think this is a very problematic cause of action(or lack of) from the agency. I just don't like the "sue them" attitude expressed in this thread, as personal responsibility should be set very high on this level of diving.

I would have no problem with an agency expelling instructors if they did not teach to the required standard. Of course that means that the students should know what the standards is so they can review them before the course but not every agency do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andreasr

... but I don't really like going after the instructor and try to prosecute him or her.

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If it's true that the IT and the instructor candidate send the stundent into a section of the cave were he could get stuck, by himself and without a line. Both of them ought to be sued and kicked from the agency. How is this not grossly negligent on the side of the 'professionals'? This is ridiculous!

I can't help but wonder how people on here and on SB would have reacted if the guy had been an American and the accident had happened in the States.

A couple of years back people were outraged about an NACD instructor who supposedly broke NACD standards... now, an instructor gets certified after one of his stundents dies and nobody seems to give a **** and some people even defend the instructors and the agency... what up with that?

Where are all the guys who were part of the mob chasing Neto through the village???

with their reaction in regards to the last two fatalities that really seem from the public facts available raise more than just questions as to instructors being at fault potentially, this organisation is just sealing its own faith.
this agency will fail as organisation shortly.
Only if they would really come forward and be absolutely transparent this could be changed.
thats not gonna happen because would likely open HQ to liabilities..

after all it might be a good thing if agencies consolidate more as a result..
This should really drive GUE.. if they are smart now and come forward on training cost then they probably could gain huge market share..