Just saw that someone posted pictures of themselves diving Telford from land. Does anyone know who we can contact for permission like this person must have done? or did they actually post pictures of themselves trespassing?
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Just saw that someone posted pictures of themselves diving Telford from land. Does anyone know who we can contact for permission like this person must have done? or did they actually post pictures of themselves trespassing?
It is still tresspassing and from what I understand if the land owners catch you, you will go to jail. Not worth the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabigcattt
People post all kinds of incriminating stuff. Florida Wildlife magazine had an article a couple of years ago about some miscreants that shot a deer out of season and proudly posted numerous photos showing themselves and the dead deer, all conveniently time and date stamped. My retired game warden dad got a big kick out of seeing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabigcattt
I drove by there Christmas, and the land route was still gated, and locked.
Hugh? Last time I talked to the person who manages the Henderson land trust he said basically they don't care about cave divers, but the local police said if they want them to enforce trespassing, it has to be enforced for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyN
Not about any particular place, but I've seen people on posted land before. I always assumed that I didn't know the whole story, they might have been friends of the owners or even the owners themselves and took the "mind my own business" approach. Seems to have worked out pretty good for me so far. I figured it wasn't my circus and I had no idea whose monkeys were there.
Yup, me too. That's really the only reasonable approach unless you're the landowner or a law enforcement officer.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
You can access if you swim up the river which is what people are doing. But do not step on the land going in or out of the spring. Otherwise it's trespassing.
Hope this helps.
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We have been following this rule for Telford, and the when I talked with the owners when it was first closed, they were agreeable to this,because there issue wasn't with the cave divers. This "rule" is trying to apply to some navigable water way rule,but trying to do the same thing at other springs,will get you a visit with law enforcement which will consider you trespassing, and the need of a judge to sort it out. There is a spring on the Suwannee that some cave divers a couple years ago used this "rule" to rationalize with the owner when caught. They were told to leave now, or he was going to call the sheriff.Quote:
Originally Posted by tflaris
There is working with property owners and there is bending over because you don't have a spine and let ignorant people push you around.
Two different things.
If you can boat up to the spring and don't step on land the owners can't do a darn thing about it, they can call the cops or holler, whatever...dive all you want.
However at Rock Bluff they may just decide to shoot shotguns overhead continually in an attempt to intimidate you.
Not a big deal, they usually only act out like that when they really have one tied on imo.
Not to be argumentative,but this isn't accurate. If you can link to the Florida law that can uphold your stance, please do, because people performing this act will need to be armed with this in advance. One of my favorite places has become off limits because of the landowner stating his stance, and he has successfully enforced it, and entry is very similar to Telford.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdax
Is Florida law different than most states in that "navigable waterways are considered public regardless of the land status surrounding them"?
I wouldn't be surprised honestly either way though due to spring protection or the like.
Navigable waterways are public. The issue is what is defined as a navigable waterway.
If Boudreaux and I can feet a small bateau in it and get down da bayou, den it's navigable, sha!
What inverted bear said. Not statue, but an article published by the Florida Bar Association discussing Florida court decisions on the issue. Most of it deals with tidal lands rather than spring runs, but still interesting. Just because you can get an inflatable dingy up it doesn't make it a "navigable waterway for useful purposes".
https://www.floridabar.org/divcom/jn...256B280076F439
I think if you truly navigate by boat, full of cave diving gear of all things, then you meet that criteria.
"Navigable" means commercial freight traffic, not kayaks, canoes, etc. Big rivers are "navigable", spring runs are NOT!
Depends on who's on the bank holding a 12 gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by inverted_bear
Definition of navigable
1
a : deep enough and wide enough to afford passage to ships <navigable waterways>
Forrest and Webster agree.
Time to name my canoe "Ship".
Some say these are waterways under control of Army Corp of Engineer. There is a case here with the Ichuaway creek and an ecological center blocking the river. It may be a Federal issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Two things we like to call upon, navigable waterways and Sportsman's Act, but neither have ever had a good interpretation in the context we like to reference them and use them.
When the land owner fenced off the entrance to Gainer Spring, a first magnitude spring on the Econfina Creek, He was taken to court by the NW Florida water management district. A judge ruled that the submerged lands in the spring run were state owned and that the upland property owner did not have the right to prevent the canoes, kayaks, and swimmers from accessing the spring.
Similar things happened at Three Sisters Spring in Crystal River, and Poe Spring on the Santa Fe.
In my experiences, asking the land owner if I can dive their spring (even though it's not technically "their" spring) usually leads to better results than bickering with them on the river bank about the concept of navigable waterways.
This is Suwannee county; Highwater marks, and the FL Sportsman act are often hollow sucker to a disgruntled land owner with a six shooter on his hip.
I agree with Adam. It is often a much better for cave Diver's reputation and land owner relations to work with the upland owners at the springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_Hughes
Do not try to access Hornsby Spring or Blue Springs from the Santa Fe river. The land owners at these locations have successfully established their right to keep people out of the springs on their property.
With that being said, do any of you guys swim from the river and dive Devils without going through Ginnie Springs?
The ear is close enough to the river that it's navigable for a useful purpose. The eye would probably be ruled as trespassing in court. (At least that's what I've been told).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubaru
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by inverted_bear
More importantly, how is telford right now. I'd like to scooter up river to it soon.
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that would mean that the kayakers who come down the river and take a break in the little devil run are trespassing?
my understanding of Georgia law(which does not apply here) is that you can boat(kayak,canoe.etc) down a waterway but cannot get out of the boat and walk on the bottom because landowners own the land beneath the surface.
So don't pull and glide... lol
It's in the state constitution. Article 10 Section 11Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...42F8A51#A10S11
SECTION 11. Sovereignty lands.—The title to lands under navigable waters, within the boundaries of the state, which have not been alienated, including beaches below mean high water lines, is held by the state, by virtue of its sovereignty, in trust for all the people. Sale of such lands may be authorized by law, but only when in the public interest. Private use of portions of such lands may be authorized by law, but only when not contrary to the public interest.
And yes, canoes and kayaks count for navigability.