How many of you dive solo?

Question for you all... I'm intro getting ready to take take apprentice. I'm tired of having buddies stand me up or not being available so I think I'm going to try a couple of solo dives at Ginnie and see how it goes.

My thinking is, start out easy... Check out the cavern zone and poke around in the gallery some and just start learning the cave from the entrance in while getting used to diving alone. I'll carry an aluminum 80 stage and breathe off of that, following the rule of 3rds (maybe halves), keep the isolator closed on my doubles and not even breathe from them unless there is a problem. That will give me 3 independant air sources. I'll also carry an extra mask and a 4th light just in case.

Any other suggestions??

Thanks!!
Rick

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Question for you all... I'm intro getting ready to take take apprentice. I'm tired of having buddies stand me up or not being available so I think I'm going to try a couple of solo dives at Ginnie and see how it goes.

My thinking is, start out easy... Check out the cavern zone and poke around in the gallery some and just start learning the cave from the entrance in while getting used to diving alone. I'll carry an aluminum 80 stage and breathe off of that, following the rule of 3rds (maybe halves), keep the isolator closed on my doubles and not even breathe from them unless there is a problem. That will give me 3 independant air sources. I'll also carry an extra mask and a 4th light just in case.

Any other suggestions??

Thanks!!
Rick

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Not the brightest idea at your skill level if you ask me.

You should be talking to your instructor about this idea. See what he/she says.

I could not agree more. Buddies are about more than air...

Drew

I am with the others. I do not know your full level and knowledge of diving so I will have ot agree. Your experiance in the overhead is still very very young. A buddy is not only for air like you try top make it but also for many other reasons. Your ability to solve problems, (a buddy can help out) enjoy the dive with(got to have a buddy for that), someone to citique you on your skills and proficancy(no buddy, no one to help you advance). I bet that any instructor would not adives you this young in your training. I will say this, since you asked, I have to say NO you are not ready.

SLIM

Problems don't just come one at a time. They can bunch up on you quickly. One problem can lead to three real quick. That is what a buddy is for. I trust my buddy with my life. If there is a problem they can be your guideline 8) to life. Sound like russian roullette.

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Originally Posted by SLIM

I will say this, since you asked, I have to say NO you are not ready.

SLIM

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Nobody wants to dive me anymore, so I dive primarly with AL. However, I will have to agree with Slim here.

If you are fully self-reliant, then I see no issue. A buddy can kill you just as certainly as they can help you when things get dicey.

If you are not fully self-reliant, then you might want to reconsider what you're doing - solo or otherwise. After all, your buddy could "go away" unexpectedly (medical issues DO happen, people DO wig out, etc) - and two people being there doubles the odds of one of them having a problem.

IMHO, of course.

(I dive solo all the time and enjoy it.)

I was reading some past accident reports,and I stumbled across one that I had long since forgotten. There was a new cave diver diving solo at Devils (Ginnie) and he was found floating dead around the mudflats with only 300 psi of air (Regs didn't work well when they reached low pressure). This situation WOULD NOT have happened had he had a buddy.

There are buddy boards that you can ask for a buddy,talk to your instructor or any other instructor and see if they can mate you up with a newly trained diver that needs experience. Ask other cave divers at the site,I've change dive plans to accomodate somebody in your position.

I dove solo from OW to cavern to intro to full and on and on. At every level there is a need to cover complete self redundancy and complete confidence with skills, directions and self rescue ability for every situation. It doesn't just mean independent air it means independent backup for everything and every posibility. Should include additional backup lights, depths, timers, etc - all gear in reliable shape.

That being said I think that it is probably beter to solo at all levels rather then assume that at some special moment you would be "able" through your other certifications to suddenly and competently do so. Solo can be done at any level but you won't start at the level you are - you should somewhat "start over" solo and regain experience.

I do have a concern about "isolator closed". You need a buddy bottle as a independent air source but gain little additional by closing the valve. If you close the valve you will need to have pressure guages for each side of the doubles and start thinking of them as independent doubles: sharing air between them and such and fouling many of the indications you would normally expect if you trained for manifolded doubles. Manifolds have advantages and disadvantages. With the major disadvantage covered by the buddy bottle I would assume most of the manifold's remaining characteristics would be to your benefit.

Also ginnie is officially "solo prohibited" and they may have concerns as well.

Also the last guy who asked on this board about solo is now dead. Died solo cave diving within a few weeks of the question. It's imposiable to say that a buddy would have have no chance to rescue/help him.

Also there often are competent buddies availiable. Not all are better then having no buddy - but most are. You could dive prep'ed for solo and try out some of them. Gain experience for both and have the bases covered both ways until you are sure.

Dive well within your limits and comfort zone.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Any other suggestions??

Thanks!!
Rick

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If you spend a lot of time diving by yourself you will miss out on several things that are some of the great parts of cave diving. Diving with people who are better than you, so you can copy skills and equipment, it takes longer learning it on your own. You miss all the great stories, shared hardships and shared fun. Ya you can most likely solo dive and get away with it, if you do get killed we can all just say "well if he had a buddy he would still be alive". Of course if you get killed with a buddy people will say nasty things anyway so it's best not to get killed! Try a little harder to find a buddy, there are forums like this one, exploration groups out there, your instructor may know some people. I know a few people in your area, pm me and I'll see if I can set you up with some friends and maybe a mentor. You can always try diving with Gary, he's not too bad of a silt monster. :twisted:
Cindy Butler :D

To all of you - Thank you very much for your concern and your comments. You've all raised issues that I am going to give some serious thought to.

Thanks!!

Rick

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

To all of you - Thank you very much for your concern and your comments. You've all raised issues that I am going to give some serious thought to.

Thanks!!


Rick

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I would dive with you, but then you would learn something and your instructor may take it personal and spread things about me because I was "stepping on his toes" by showing you something... :roll:

If you are prepare to resolve any emergency that you might encounter, you are a solo diver (buddy or not).
I believe in solo diving and do it, but not in overhead enviroments (including deco dives)

Take care, safe diving and always start your dives with all the valves fully open (including the isolator).

ED

IMHO.
While I prefer diving with a trustworthy buddy or two, I believe it's healthy to develop a mindset of self-reliance, equipment redundancy and maintenance that treats every dive as if it were potentially "Solo". This is especially true in the Tech realm but I even approach a 60 fsw O.W. drift dive this way. I always practice redundancy so that an "emergency free assent" is never an option. If I have a problem underwater my intention is to solve it there. Too many divers treat the buddy system as their only Plan B.

Diving with buddies is a strange thing. I've dove with mostly full cave people, but I've also dove with other intro folks. Honestly, I think I've enjoyed diving with intro folks more.

When I dive with full cave folks in most cases they forget that I'm a rookie and try to do stuff that I'm not real comfortable with (with one exception... I did 2 dives at peacock with 2 full cavers I met on this board and both dives were awesome... I felt guilty because I was holding them back, but they were both GREAT to dive with... Thanks guys!!).

I had a buddy stand me up at Ginnie a couple of months ago and ended up hooking up with a full caver that was going to do a solo sidemount dive. I told him I was intro and asked him if he would mind diving together. He agrees and starts talking about doing a traverse and jumping off into the white room so I say whoa!! Intro...remember?? So he says ok...we'll just take it easy... Just follow me.

Once he gears up we go flying down in the ear (I'm following) and first thing, he hooks a left and starts into the catacombs. No biggie, I've been wanting to go in there anyway. He doesn't run a line so I start to tie onto the mainline and he comes back and motions me to just follow him in. I ignore him, finish tying on and start following him running a reel.

So he goes flying thru there kicking up a mess of crap in my face and I'm trying to keep up with him, squeezing my big butt thru some of the tightest stuff I've been in so far. I wasn't liking it very much. Once we get back to the mainline and I tie off, we take off down the mainline to the bone line jump and he does a blind jump down there. I just hung out at the gold line till he comes back and I give him a WTF look. He reaches back and gets a spool and starts to tie into the mainline but by then I had had enough and I thumbed it. It was obvious that he wasn't happy about it, but he put his spool away, followed me back out and that was pretty much the end of it.

I know that for you full cave folks all of that would have just been a walk in the park, but I definately wasn't feeling it.

By comparison, this past weekend I buddied up with another intro guy and we did 2 dives at Ginnie and one at Peacock and had an absolute blast. He had a single so I was going to turn on 6ths, but we still had 3 good 40 minute dives. We poked along the mainline just checking things out and on the way back out looked in a bunch of the holes, etc... It was a good time.

That is what I was talking about when I said I was thinking about going solo. Just taking my time, starting in the cavern zone and learning the cave. Breathing off an AL-80, I'll only have 20 - 30 mins of air before I turn it with a good 90 minutes of untouched backgas for an emergency. I can learn the cave at my pace instead of getting in over my head like I did that one time.

However, having been lurking on the boards for a few months now I have a tremendous respect for most of you guys now and your experience so now I'm going to reevaluate my thinking and try to figure it all out. Thanks again!!

Rick

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Intro...remember?? ........

So He had a single so I was going to turn on 6ths,

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Aren't you suppose to always be turning on 6ths (with doubles) since you are an intro level diver?

I normally do turn on 6ths or thereabouts, but I have to admit that it also kinda depends on who I'm diving with and where. High flow systems like Little River and Ginnie I usually won't do any more penetration after I reach 6ths, but I don't always head straight out either.

I started diving doubles right after I got my intro card and ALWAYS did 1/6ths for a while, but now I have a decent number of dives under my belt and sometimes relax it a bit when I'm diving with full cavers. Other intro divers whether they have doubles or not we turn on 1/6ths.

Once I start apprentice I'll be doing 1/3rds so I am kind of preparing myself for it I guess.

I don't think I've ever actually made it to 1/3rds yet though.

Rick

Rick,

When I started cave diving I only would dive with my regular buddy for the longest time. We would team up with others but still always be the team. I think I missed out on alot by being this way. Like many have said be prepared to dive as a solo at all times, You never know when you might find yourself several feet away from your buddy and have to solve a problem on your own. Post when you are going diving on the buddy list on this forum. If you are diving a weekend you are sure to team up.
Weekdays are a little tougher. before you know it you will have a small group of people to dive with. Then the only problem is when everyone wants to dive at the same time. :D

Curt

Wow, that sidemount story is scary. I'm currently at intro level and I know how you feel about feeling guilty when diving with full cave divers. My first dive in the Devil's was with a couple of full cave divers and they layed out their dive plan, it was to enter the ear, tie in and head up towards the lips and when I hit thirds (1st dive in there, they didn't expect me to make it much past the lips) head back, tie another reel into the mainline and run it out the eye to set them up for another dive. They would then head back in after dropping me off. At first I just kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to look like a whiny intro diver but then I started thinking this is the exact kind of thing that gets people killed, trust-me dives. Even though I knew one of these divers very well, I told them I wasn't comfortable with the plan since 1) I had no knowledge of the distance between the eye and the gallery and 2) the only line we would have on exiting the eye would take me back into the cave. They said no problem and changed their plans.

Point is when diving with full cave divers, you either follow your limits or you'd better be comfortable putting your life in the hands of a stranger. A good thing to use to overcome the peer pressure of diving with someone far more advanced is to think about the thoughts that will go through your head if the unthinkable happens: "I can't believe I'm going to die because I didn't want to look like a wuss." Remember, diving dangerously in a cave vs driving dangerously you'll likely have plenty of time to know you're going to drown and you'll be alone with your thoughts until it happens.

Hey there Rick. Im a dependable intro diver hopefully about to start my apprentice who, schedule permitting, will meet up with you and do some nice n' easy dives all day long. Thanks for the post, I too have run into similar questions about solo diving. It is an issue. I dont want to hold any of the "full" guys back, at the same time I value my @ss enough not to do dives, jumps, restrictions, sumps, no line etc. that im not qualified/trained for. That being said my last cave dive was solo, at Devils. I went just passed the lips after a very complete gear check. I had a great time and didnt really have any problem with it. However, it isn’t really something that I want to make a habit out of, at least at this point in my cave diving career. I need the practice so next time you want to go, PM me and we'll go do some divin. Just let me know.

--jm

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

To all of you - Thank you very much for your concern and your comments. You've all raised issues that I am going to give some serious thought to.

Thanks!!

Rick

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Rick,

There comes a mark in solo diving when after spending hours at it on numerous dives, that one becomes bored-! It is much more fun to have someone to explore with. Like Gary said, a certain amount of self-reliance is a good thing, just don't be stupid about it. Above all dive safe & sane-!

JE.... 8)

I have nothing against diving solo, but if you have to ask then obviously you are not ready to go it alone. The cave is the worst possible place to start solo; if your mindset is such that you truly want to dive solo for whatever the reason, then start slow in open water. Get to know your equipment as well as yourself. It is all about having fun, and that you will likely not be doing if you just up and decide to go inside a cave by yourself with no prior solo experience.

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Breathing off an AL-80, I'll only have 20 - 30 mins of air before I turn it with a good 90 minutes of untouched backgas for an emergency.

Rick

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Just to let you know that there are some that consider the Al80 as buddy gas and therefore do not breathe it at all during a solo dive and dive 6ths or 3rds depending on training level and comfort out of their back gas with an open isolator. Bill

Yep.

If I'm diving solo in an overhead I typically take a full 80 and never touch it; its "aw #hit" gas. Gas management becomes a matter of insuring that you have two separate sources of gas that each (individually) can get you out from wherever you might be at any point.

A twinset CAN fail catastrophically (e.g. isolator valve stem blows out); thus "your best buddy AL". Also, if you have a single-side failure on a twinset you must figure out what you will have once you stop the leak - this is not "half of what's in the can right now", because some will be lost in dealing with whatever happened in the first place. In addition when that sort of situation arises you also have to figure on OTHER problems being present at the same time as well which are likely to impede a clean exit (e.g. the siltout you caused trying to deal with the blown O-ring, etc) plus your breathing rate is likely to be jacked from the incident, so computing gas management on the premise that you can exit "cleanly" can be a fatal mistake.

Murphy is not a nice guy and my expeirence is that he tends to show up in threes. When the first thing goes wrong I start looking for the other two, because they're usually close behind....

I do agree with Dewayne though - if you've gotta ask about solo diving (in any environment, not just an overhead) you're probably not ready for it. But, IMHO, you shouldn't be diving at all if you can't self-rescue - the accident statistics are littered with people who got in trouble and their buddy either was unable to help them for some reason or got himself killed simply by being there and becoming a part of what went wrong. Yes, the opposite happens too - just to be fair about it - the problem is that out of all the gear we take underwater with us, the most likely to fail to operate "properly" in a bad situation is the human mind.

When did Ginnie become "solo NO-NO" I was there over Christmas break and did the Maple Leaf circuit solo. No one said anything to me about it being prohibited. I had this debate with my firends in Ohio about solo cave diving. I agree with the cavers on here that say that a buddy can get you out of trouble. However, they can get you into trouble too! I would rather solo than be killed by another diver. Just my 2 cents. Dive safe

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Originally Posted by everdeeper43015

When did Ginnie become "solo NO-NO"

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They can make all the rules they want, but they can't necessarily enforce them, because they own the dry land, not the cave. For example, they don't want you to use a DPV without a card, so they won't let you have one on their dry land. But once you're in the water, you can decide to dive solo, and since you're in a navigable waterway, they have no jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Once he gears up we go flying down in the ear (I'm following) and first thing, he hooks a left and starts into the catacombs. No biggie, I've been wanting to go in there anyway. He doesn't run a line so I start to tie onto the mainline and he comes back and motions me to just follow him in. I ignore him, finish tying on and start following him running a reel.

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I'm not going to comment on the solo thing as most people on here know my thoughts on the matter :-D

However, I did want to commend you on your actions. Too many idiots die in caves because they play "follow the leader" instead of "thinking for themselves". You did exactly the right thing not to follow your "buddy" blindly and take the time to run your own line.....

Safe diving,

Rich

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Originally Posted by looseBits

I'm currently at intro level and I know how you feel about feeling guilty when diving with full cave divers.

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Guys, if it bothered us "full cave" guys we wouldn't put the invite out there for you to tag along. It is however YOUR responsability to stay within your comfort level. If during the predive breifing there is something that makes you a little nervous, that's the time to say something. If you feel the need to thumb it for whatever reason, do it! The cave isn't going anywhere, there is always tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Rich

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Originally Posted by rick68fl

Once he gears up we go flying down in the ear (I'm following) and first thing, he hooks a left and starts into the catacombs. No biggie, I've been wanting to go in there anyway. He doesn't run a line so I start to tie onto the mainline and he comes back and motions me to just follow him in. I ignore him, finish tying on and start following him running a reel.

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I'm not going to comment on the solo thing as most people on here know my thoughts on the matter :-D

However, I did want to commend you on your actions. Too many idiots die in caves because they play "follow the leader" instead of "thinking for themselves". You did exactly the right thing not to follow your "buddy" blindly and take the time to run your own line.....

Safe diving,

Rich

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I too commend you for doing the right thing. No one I know or dive with would be put off by such a thing nor would be annoyed by an intro-level diver sticking to an intro-level plan. Please continue to look for buddies. I suspect you won't have much trouble now.....


Angie

Thanks again everyone... You've talked me out of it. I'm going to keep diving with a buddy for a while, rack up some more experience and reevaluate things at a later time (maybe after apprentice).

For those of you who PM'd me offering to go diving and those of you on the board that responded, thank you all very much... I'll be in touch.

It's funny. I got in a disagreement with a very good friend over this yesterday (who said I was out of my mind) and initially posted yesterday so I could show her that it wasn't all that big a deal. Guess I was the one who needed showing.

Thanks guys (and gals)!! You all are the BEST!!

Rick

I suspected your inbox would fill up pretty quickly. This is a great bunch of folks. If you lurk around long enough you will see the real active members.

Rick,

There is some pretty good cavern/intro stuff down in our area as well. Give me a shout if you would be interested in seeing some of it. I always love seeing how people respond to the "Buford Experience".

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Originally Posted by DeepSea

Rick,

There is some pretty good cavern/intro stuff down in our area as well. Give me a shout if you would be interested in seeing some of it. I always love seeing how people respond to the "Buford Experience".

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With all this rain, the hike out there should be just ripe enough for a newbie... :-D

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Originally Posted by Tegg

With all this rain, the hike out there should be just ripe enough for a newbie... :-D

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"ripe" or "snipe"? (as in snipe hunt)

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Originally Posted by FW

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Originally Posted by Tegg

With all this rain, the hike out there should be just ripe enough for a newbie... :-D

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"ripe" or "snipe"? (as in snipe hunt)

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Here we go again: It's the 'Shad-Roc_Tote Moe ya gottz to watch out fer-!
The swamp Beavers will get ya too {at el: Bucky}!
Remember him-?

Hey Forrest,
Nice to hear from you.

Jack :roll:

Yes you did the right thing and lay your line. But when diving with people that have more experience dont let them tell you it's ok. If you give the thumb then it is over no questions asked.

Solo you can always dive at your own pace which can be really nice. On the other hand you can dig yourself into a heap of trouble without needing to go far in the cave. When I'm playing at my own pace someplace "close to the exit and easy" I tend to find the crazyest most challanging stuff and often surprize myself how much air and time I've used. There's a dive report of "Sand hill extravaganza" that is pretty typical of what you can find in the first 200' of a cave if you look too hard.

Not me thankfully but a pair of friends of mine once played that "close to the exit and easy" game in the cavern at Orange Grove and found themselves quickly at 180' on air and violated both thier computers. After going through all their availiable gas at the they got out and called me to see if they were dead or not from the missed deco (the one computer that stilll worked at all said they missed over an hour of deco). I'll admit they probably should have noticed the level of trouble they got themselves into before then but "in the moment" they were too engrosed in what they were doing to exercise good judgement to effect an ideal result.

Solo diving can make you a better, safer diver but you don't have to go alone. I like having the choice of going diving alone or with whoever I want to. Doing my own thing or sharing something with a buddy.

Watch those sidemount divers many are solo diving even when they are with a buddy. Equipment-wise they are just set up that way. Personality-wise they are often independent. A big step away from the standard US setup and buddy framework.

Cindy is very right about missing out on other divers, ideas and access to cave you don't know about. Instructors make the great mentors, are often great buddies and usually quite eager to help out and share new places. I've seldom taken a class where the instructor didn't leave an open offer to join him to go diving for fun after the class was complete. I've learned that those are some of the best missed oportunities I've ever failed to take advantage of.

Unfortunately there is practically no solo training availiable in the US so it is little surprising that solo divers in the US may run into trouble. In the UK they train that way and thus are prepared and equipped and have few (if any) problems. In the US a sidemount cave course is probably the closest you can come to a training ciriculum for solo cave - much better then advice off the internet. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Sludge

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Originally Posted by everdeeper43015

When did Ginnie become "solo NO-NO"

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They can make all the rules they want, but they can't necessarily enforce them, because they own the dry land, not the cave. For example, they don't want you to use a DPV without a card, so they won't let you have one on their dry land. But once you're in the water, you can decide to dive solo, and since you're in a navigable waterway, they have no jurisdiction.

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Sludge why all this hostility with Ginnie and its jurisdictions? Ginnie it is not law enforcing agency or Nazi dive place. They just try to protect themselves from irresponsible divers who decide to sue Ginnie for their own idiocity. You know how it is, tooooooo many lawers in this country.

For the record, Ginnie will not not check you in, if you come in and say.
1. I am going to do a solo dive, give me a pass.
2. I am an intro diver in doubles, but not Dis. App.
3. I am OW water and plan to check out the Mapleleaf.
4. or something similar that ecxeeds your limits.


PS. I did not know you need sidemount to go at the white room? It is increadible what can you learn from "kick-anus" sidemounters.

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Originally Posted by Sludge

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Originally Posted by everdeeper43015

When did Ginnie become "solo NO-NO"

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They can make all the rules they want, but they can't necessarily enforce them, because they own the dry land, not the cave. .

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Actualy Ginnie has always been officially "no solo diving allowed". Given adequite cause they can enforce it by kicking offenders out of the park by the land end. Those who enter via the river aren't their problem or their responsibility.

If you show up and do stupid things and don't look like you should be doing what you are doing and people are complaining, etc. expect the Ginnie Staff to take approprite action - just like they would do for scooterers or doubles w/o approprite certification or OW divers diving the caves or heading in with lights.

I have no problem with Ginnie at all. I was just pointing out that the "no solo" rule is in fact a suggestion. Although, as was pointed out, it may help in future litigation.

Russell

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Originally Posted by Sludge

I have no problem with Ginnie at all. I was just pointing out that the "no solo" rule is in fact a suggestion. Although, as was pointed out, it may help in future litigation.

Russell

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well is has to be a suggestion since there is no State or Federal law that prohibits solo diving or OW diver from entering a cave.

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Originally Posted by Gary

Not me thankfully but a pair of friends of mine once played that "close to the exit and easy" game in the cavern at Orange Grove and found themselves quickly at 180' on air and violated both thier computers. :

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I only have about a dozen dives in Lower Orange, but I find it hard to believe that they accidentally ended up at 180' in LO. It's a challenge to hit 180'. You have to go looking to find it (unless there's a nook and cranny that I haven't been able to find).

That brings up an interesting point. I'll start a new thread to avoid the Hi-jacking.

There are only 5 reasons that I can think of to cave dive alone:
1.Dive every day and can't find buddies to keep up with your frequency
2. Are a total @sshole and can't find any buddies
3. The hole only allows 1 diver at a time for safety reasons
4. It's easier to study on deco when nobody is there to put rocks in your manifold
5. You prefer the escapist feel of being alone and having the hole to yourself.

I'm guilty of all 5, mostly #2 ;). Anyone want to add reasons?

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Originally Posted by JDR

There are only 5 reasons that I can think of to cave dive alone:
Anyone want to add reasons?

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6. You are competent and comfortable in the cave and don't need your hand held. Your equipment is set up to support it.
7. The dive you plan is beyond the necessary competence, training or equipment level of any of the divers availiable to buddy up that for that dive (AND #6 above)
8. The buddies that are available are @ssholes and you'd probably rather not dive than dive with them.
9. You dive a lot and thus have interests or plan activities that don't align with the activities or presence of a buddy (for example: mapping, photography, line repair, etc)
10. You feel like diving alone that day and can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't.
11. You are planning a dive of such risk and with so little safety margin that you could not posiably be of any help to a buddy or they to you (for example: Shek Exley's dives to 700'+) (of course a safer plan may be a wiser decision)

One of the best things about cave diving is coming out and saying "Wow, did you see that?" I think that a big part of the fun is sharing it with someone. I haven't done any solo cave diving (usually, we've got more than enough people to go around) but I see people doing it and there might be an occasion down the road where I want to go that route for some reason.

My friends taught me something useful about diving with less experienced cave divers. When I first finished my cave class, they made me lead nearly every dive for quite a while afterwards. When I questioned it, they explained that it always makes sense to give the reel to the least experienced person. That way, the dive goes at the beginner's pace and they can control what happens, and the more experienced diver can watch and correct issues before they become problems.

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Originally Posted by BillGraham

When I questioned it, they explained that it always makes sense to give the reel to the least experienced person. That way, the dive goes at the beginner's pace and they can control what happens, and the more experienced diver can watch and correct issues before they become problems.

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I have been diving with Gary on about 80% of my dives since cavern. He was full cave and would 'make' me lead. I always thought it was a great way to handle the differances in our skill - I went where I felt comfortable and stopped when I didn't. I probably did a lot more that way than we would have planned for on the surface. AND in leading you tend to learn the cave better - rather than trusing and following a 'more experianced' diver.

I used to dive solo a lot, because I had nobody to dive with, now I have many cave diving friends and very rarely dive solo.
One thing I noticed though is that we all progress at different speeds; I pull and glide at 80/100ft/min and drop a stage in 10/20 seconds, but there's people that don't pull and glide and take more than a minute to drop a stage, so it does happen to me to find myself waiting all the time, when diving with certain people. It's OK, but when I want to see something well into the cave, a dive that could take me 60' can last as much as 90', a time that would allow me to progress much forther, so even if I still enjoy the company, I'm not totally enjoying the dive as I would when diving with someone that has my pace.

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Originally Posted by Moonfuzzy

I have been diving with Gary on about 80% of my dives since cavern. He was full cave and would 'make' me lead. I always thought it was a great way to handle the differances in our skill - I went where I felt comfortable and stopped when I didn't. I probably did a lot more that way than we would have planned for on the surface. AND in leading you tend to learn the cave better - rather than trusing and following a 'more experianced' diver.

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This is one of the best posts that I've seen in a while. Great wording and a positive outlook. This is a great way to dive, mentor, and so many other things.

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Originally Posted by JDR

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Originally Posted by Gary

Not me thankfully but a pair of friends of mine once played that "close to the exit and easy" game in the cavern at Orange Grove and found themselves quickly at 180' on air and violated both thier computers. :

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I only have about a dozen dives in Lower Orange, but I find it hard to believe that they accidentally ended up at 180' in LO. It's a challenge to hit 180'. You have to go looking to find it (unless there's a nook and cranny that I haven't been able to find).

That brings up an interesting point. I'll start a new thread to avoid the Hi-jacking.

There are only 5 reasons that I can think of to cave dive alone:
1.Dive every day and can't find buddies to keep up with your frequency
2. Are a total @sshole and can't find any buddies
3. The hole only allows 1 diver at a time for safety reasons
4. It's easier to study on deco when nobody is there to put rocks in your manifold
5. You prefer the escapist feel of being alone and having the hole to yourself.

I'm guilty of all 5, mostly #2 ;). Anyone want to add reasons?

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God know if I am an anushole.
regarding 5. "having a hole to yourself" that does sound great especialy if it is "restricted"

How about getting tired of baby-sitting,
You guys have no idea how many guys dive only solo after a couple of dives with me.

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Originally Posted by Gary

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Originally Posted by JDR

There are only 5 reasons that I can think of to cave dive alone:
Anyone want to add reasons?

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6. You are competent and comfortable in the cave and don't need your hand held. Your equipment is set up to support it.
7. The dive you plan is beyond the necessary competence, training or equipment level of any of the divers availiable to buddy up that for that dive (AND #6 above)
8. The buddies that are available are @ssholes and you'd probably rather not dive than dive with them.
9. You dive a lot and thus have interests or plan activities that don't align with the activities or presence of a buddy (for example: mapping, photography, line repair, etc)
10. You feel like diving alone that day and can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't.
11. You are planning a dive of such risk and with so little safety margin that you could not posiably be of any help to a buddy or they to you (for example: Shek Exley's dives to 700'+) (of course a safer plan may be a wiser decision)

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12. You have already proven to yourself that when the caca hits the fan you are likely to be right there in the midst of things attempting to keep your buddy from getting hit.

13. You enjoy the solace of being underwater with just you, the water, and the environment.

That’s smart choice. I am intro and diving alone at this stage is a mistake, there are plenty of people who would probably dive with you. Stick to your cert and get to know the environment you dive in well. I have a buddy and we dive peacock and i see know problem with you joining us on a dive, feel free to pm me for addition info. Stay smart and safe.

;-)