Amazing. Low flow and high vis.
I really feel like this was the first time I was able to both dive it and actually look around and SEE the cave. If it were like that all the time I'd probably go a lot more often!
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Amazing. Low flow and high vis.
I really feel like this was the first time I was able to both dive it and actually look around and SEE the cave. If it were like that all the time I'd probably go a lot more often!
What's the water level in the spring pool now? Is it still over the cement or has it gone back down?Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
http://i.imgur.com/xjiTFTt.jpg
Taken on Saturday, table rock is 103'
How far did you go?
That is a great dive with low flow!!! How was the silt on the horizontal surfaces?
The water is still up over the cement wall. The basin is clear too. Standing on the "sidewalk" the water is about chest deep.
Jay: what silt?
We dove it Sunday with about same conditions but I am giving up on LR until I am at full cave, it was just a struggle to stay above 100'. Made it further than I ever have before but ceiling was still at 95' when we turned because my computer was about to put me into deco, does it ever come up from 95' ?? I think Pete said we hit the "Y" in the gold line but didn't see what he was talking about.
Tim
If you hit the "Y" which takes you to the Florida Room you would know.
You might... I more than likely wouldn't... specially if we were just before it, which we likely were.
I was there Saturday and the conditions were great as reported. It was only my 4th dive in Little River but the best overall conditions I have ever encountered there. As I was coming out of the cave I heard a boat motor. Apparently someone decided they needed to drive their boat all the way up the run. The locals took it upon themselves to let him know he was not supposed to do that. He got mouthy with the locals and some choice words were thrown about and his woman and another one got into a fight. I am sorry I missed this fine display of Florida Cracker lady like behavior but my girlfriend filled me in as she had a front row seat while sitting in my boat.
Let's give Waldo a little slack. He's so busy keeping an eye on his depth gauge and focusing on not violating his 100' rule, while systematically checking his SPG to ensure he doesn't break thirds all while gingerly gliding through the cave in his shorts and T shirt, it would be a lot to expect that if he encountered his only allowable navigational decision (a T marked with an arrow the size of a dinner plate) that he would actually realize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellmoundal
Typically after a reversal there is silt on the horizontal surfaces before the flow picks up. Especially areas like the Mud Tunnel and such. Sometimes if I was one of the early ones in and no one was around to be bothered by it I would do a little housekeeping to get the stuff off common areas of travel where it was usually just exposed limestone with no silt.
I figured it was better if I could get a bunch of it out at once so people wouldn't be bothered by it a bit at a time.
You hit the nail on the head :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
Actually Pete said we were "right" at it, I didn't see anything so it had to be within 15 or so feet.... but I WAS SO watching my depth gauge... OOOPS I hit 104' as I was turning but up till that point it was a struggle to stay above 100' But the thing that had me most worried was hitting my NDL which was within 5 minutes at the point I turned.
You have to give me some credit though, I am TRYING to stay within the limits of my certification, rather than blatantly ignoring them.
Tim
If there's bubbles on the ceiling it converts to an open water dive and you can go to 130... It's just like at devils den... only a smaller air space.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Just like going from P1 to Olsen isn't a traverse because once you're in open water you're not cave diving any more.
:p
(I guess I should edit in a disclaimer that I'm not being serious, before someone blows a gasket)
I"m sure they will too... so many people take all the fun out of on-line forums. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
On the other hand since you were telling ME that, they might look the other way and hope I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Sigh...... I commend you for taking the rules to such heart but really! You are not going to start fissing like an Alka Seltzer if you hit 110. I think if you stay within the MOD of your gas mix you are A-Ok. I know some will disagree.
thank you for at least understanding. :) know I won't fizz up but really am trying to stay within boundaries of my cert level. My normal gas mod is 111' but just happened to be diving 29% so even deeper mod for sunday... biggest issue at LR will probably be deco for me, maybe as a first dive I would be ok, but this was dive #2 and diving conservative computer compared to my dive buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
Ah, thanks much.Quote:
Originally Posted by derek
The lowest I've been able to catch Little River is low 90's at the bottom of the chimney. But the run was water falling into the river then too.
Hey it's not as bad missing the T on the way in as it is on the way out. Like I did a few years ago [emoji12]Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
was Rich messing with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock
Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
My only recommendation is to loosen up w/ your cave diving. You will have so much for fun and see a lot more.
FACT: You will not instantly combust if you go past your cert level by a few feet.
FACT: you will not instantly combust if you hit a bit of deco. However, you may freeze your ass if you get some good deco w/ a tshirt :)
Just for contrast, this was Little River in November 2011.
Attachment 12705
Almost no flow that day...
That's when little river lived up to its name. Looks like there was some flow!
The main reason I want to avoid deco... I know as soon as I stop moving for more than 10 minutes I will start to get cold.... thats about how long I can sit in the basin after a dive. Mind you I'll start getting chilly and everyone else will start turning blue... but I don't want to reach the chilly point because once I GET COLD... it takes FOREVER to warm up.Quote:
Originally Posted by patpicos
Forrest suggested letting Gamble extend the drysuit I have to its not so uncomfortable around my legs... if the person showing interest doesn't buy it that will probably be the plan, I really want to finish Cave2 this fall and I will need a drysuit to do it.
Nah, sometimes I would get to LR late in the day. I'd be in the back end, look at my watch and realize I only had 90 mins. before the gate closes and rack up 50 mins deco. Then I'd be rushing out and miss the first T. It's a 90 degree turn out at the T and easy to continue straight on which goes back into the cave :). Do they actually close the gate at night? Has anybody had their car stuck overnight in the lot?Quote:
Originally Posted by patpicos
Just buy an annual pass next time. It's well worth it. They give you your own key and allow access 24/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock
:rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by Draker
Guilty on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock
I have missed the second T on the way out, but only on a scooter. I think they have moved it a little since then. Hard to imagine missing it swimming...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
I have dove LR a few times when it was that low in the mid 90's. Once I had a freaking pitbull practically in my face when I surfaced just a few ft away from the tree/log. Had to tell the owner to get him away from be or we would both be going for a swim.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschaut
OK, I have to ask.. Waldo, are you just trying to avoid deco, or DCS? Unless something has changed in the last few years, a lack of thermal protection and subsequent fatique can increase risk for DCS. I prefer to be more 'safety concious' than 'rules concious'.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
..Usually the same thing... but not always.
Mark
Just trying to abide by NAUI CAVE1 standards.... no siphons, 100' bottom, 2 nav decisions, and no deco....Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
Thermally I am fine, no matter how many people would like to think I'm freezing my butt off.... you guys are just going to have to trust me on this.
Tim
I think you are over reading the standard. There should be no planned deco. If the profile of the dive chances slightly due to conditions at this level you should be able to handle a few minutes of deco.. I'm sorry if just don't understand I and most of us that were certified prior to all these new fangled agencies did deco on air or O2 long before there was such a thing a advanced Nitrox Deco procedures.
I assume you mean the "2nd T" that emerges either from the Merry Go Round or Serpentine Tunnels.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellmoundal
We did LR for my "Intro" qualifier dive as well as my "Full Cave" qualifier dive. I made all the way to the Florida Room for that Full cave qualifier dive.
In both cases, my instructor was checking my SA, by veering off course to see if I'd notice. I did, both times. In the case of the full cave qualifier dive, we were heading back from the Florida room on the Merry Go Round tunnel, and he whizzed right by the 1st T and entered the Serpentine tunnel. I had to flash him back to the 1st T. He came back though.
^^ Thanks for posting what I was thinking!Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
Agreed. UN-planned deco is definitely a much better option...Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
There is no fun in safety.
??? I'm not sure what your point is. Unplanned deco would be you plan the dive into LR and there is a delay exiting maybe you need to clear a reel in the mud tunnel or you take a nice slow assent in the chimney that causes you to has 5 or so minutes of deco at 10 ft. Have you violated standards? Are you going to fizzzz like Alka Seltzer? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
Ok... so if I see that I am about to enter a deco situation, it is best choice to then turn my dive based on impending deco obligation not to continue until I hit 3rds. So now I'm not understanding why that is an issue??Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
Not sure how that is over reading the standards. On that note, I am excited to actually be doing dives that are deep enough and long enough to even get close to a deco obligation and can't wait until I'm at the level that I can actually plan and execute some deco dives and more shockingly some staged dives.... so much cave, so little breathing gas :)
Tim
Not sure what it takes to gain membership into UDIE.... but I LOVE their outlook on diving. :) Though being such a stickler for my organizations standards I will probably never get invited to join either :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
Tim
I like the visual of Mentos and Diet Coke.... COME ON CURTSCHU get with the times.....Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
Wow, how things have changed. I remember getting ready for my Intro class in the early 90s. I had to get a set of NuWay Orange (navy) dive tables and an Aladin Pro. I went from PADI AOW/Deep/Cavern where the "D" word was not spoken of.. to cave diving where deco was just "part of it". ..Now it seems like a whole new chapter. All for the best, I guess.. I was probably doing moderate deco dives much sooner than I was ready for it. I was doing a fair amount of diving in LR. So I was pretty well aware of how much deco I could get into with my double 95s.
Most shops did not even have nitrox then. I think that might have been before PADI accepted it. Let alone AN/DP
Adler,
your right... in the late 80's I swore you would NEVER find me in one of those water filled caves.... All I had to worry about then was running out of light and well I carried enough carbide and water for several days worth of light.... Was all fine and good till I was doing a water crawl and heard my pack HISSING.... seems someone didn't put the lid on tight enough... leaking carbide in my pack and a live flame on my head.... hhhhhmmmmm I quit carrying so much carbide after that.... yeah, didn't wear a wetsuit then either :)
Tim
Deco sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Thought that was supposed to be OklahomaQuote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
As in, why does the wind always blow north across the Red River...Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Get a TDI card, it says "no restrictions" ... that means you can do what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
What I mean is that you don't plan a Double Stage Mainline run that you know is going to be 90 minutes in at 100ft and rack up a known Deco obligation and planned O2 left at the sign. But if you are cruising in LR on the mainline and you are at 105ft and you are just before the Florida Room and you are not at thirds and you are just having a great time. But if you Don't turn right now!!! you will gather a 10 ft stop obligation, I think you should trust your training and enjoy the dive. Every Diver should be able to handle a deco obligation.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Every cave diver should be taught / learn how to handle a deco obligation.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
And PLAN accordingly.
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
That is a great concept, but then I would be totally relying on my computer because I really do not know anything about deco. Which is fine, I've totally relied upon my computer till now but I have at least had a the basics of no decompression diving limits, if my computer died I would have a pretty good idea of what I needed to do. Right now I'm at the level of do my best to not get a deco obligation and if it happens follow the computer. Until I get at least an introductory education towards deco procedures it would be silly to keep blazing up the gold line until I hit 3rds. I have thought about carrying a stage JUST for emergencies but at the level I'm diving RIGHT NOW that even seems a bit overkill as long as I follow 3rds. At best I'm doing 1000' penetration on 3rds depending on flow (I did make it to Olsen from p1 on less than 3rds but again with the flow being nill).
So.. planning to do a deco dive is def out, accidentally getting a few minuted of deco is a try to avoid but deal with it scenario. But If I see the chance to turn a dive before entering into deco I will, because continuing on is the same as planning to do it.
I like restrictions, they keep me from getting into to much trouble. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
I was trained to carry a backup bottom timer and a set of Navy tables. What do you do if you computer goes Tango-Uniform? You could rely on your buddy, but that seems to violate self sufficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
If you are diving your computer right up the edge of NDL, then you could easily be beyond the no-stop limits of your standard tables. What if you had to search for the line, or a buddy. The inability to surface immediatly carries with it obligations that could easily force you into deco.
It seems to me, that to really plan a cave dive with no risk of deco, you would really need to limit your OH time to 1/3 of your no-deco-limit.
I know my training is now ~20 yrs old, but cannot imagine going into a cave like Little River without some comfort with decompression.
That is actually my plan. Ok, so I'm going to get grief about cave diving is expensive for saying this... But a typical gas fill costs me $12. I can get an hour long dive at Peacock, and 40+ minutes at Ginnie (fees excluded) or Manatee... but if I goto Little River I get a whole WHOPPING 22 minutes. That being said, until I can carry stages and do deco you just wont see me at Little River much. Maybe Cavern diving with my cavern friends or doing some drills from the Chimney... but that is about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
Tim
There is actually quite a bit of cave to see and re-discover in Little River before the chimney and before getting to 90'.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
And without the hindrance of a cumbersome Drysuit, you should easily fit in most of the nooks, crannies and side passages.
I bet you can easily manage at least 30 minutes. And get your "free" admission's worth.
its not so much about the $$ as having to take the time to go get more air fills for 25 or so minutes of diving. But Draker, you should be happy.... I won't be there ruining your dive because I'm not in a drysuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
Seriously though, at cavern I LOVED LR. At Cave1 I'll get more experience in a lower flow, shallower cave.
Cavern at LR? Can you get past the left turn or the cinder blocks and still be in the cavern zone? I guess I never even considered diving to cavern limitations there.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
No, the cavern ends where the line makes a hard left turn. When the water is clear, the LR cavern is pretty nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
You used to be able to go to the stop sign... but it's moved back about 5 feet now... and it is an AWESOME cavern dive.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
I'm a really bad person my first dive in LR was to table rock the night before my cavern class. Like I've said before I'm your classic lucky to be alive 1980s caving diving with no training guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler
I sure don't think that makes you a bad person (necesarily). I shudder to think of all the stupid decisions that I have been lucky enough to survive. In the 80's information about cave diving was relatively guarded. I can see how curiocity and enthusiasm might lead divers past sensible limitations. Today, resources are abundant. Anyone with a computer and 1/2 an ounce of sense can learn about the dangers and how one might minimize said risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
I have heard a story about a basic OW class in the late '70's/early '80's where the final dive of the class was to table rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtschu
Now that is scary, at least I was one of those crazy self trained people diving in caves. I had just enough knowledge to get me killed but as that was not in the plan I got training. You should have seen the look on Gene Broome's face when we told him we went to table rock the night before!!! I think his left eye when all the went around.Quote:
Originally Posted by MORGAN
I suspect a thread listing all the stupid stuff we 'got away with' would be interesting to read, but probably irresponsible to post. Its tempting to post up a few things that come to mind. Fatality reports are a good sobering warning to the untrained. I fear the "I got away with it" stories might have the opposite affect.
I dove little river Sunday, 5/24. The water was way down and the flow was way up. It was a pretty good dive, but if you aren't familiar with the nooks and crannies to hide from the flow be prepared for some pull and pull and pull and pull with no glide.
I was surprised, I expected a crowd but there wasn't one. even though there were a few hillbillies swimming there was only one other team there. It was nice.
Perhaps we should change this thread to "The official Little River Conditions thread"
All of the cave divers were at Peacock.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
lucky for me :) it was a realllly nice dive. I staggered with the other team so I had the cave all to myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyTom