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I've heard a lot of people talking about the lack of active membership in the NSS-CDS and NACD. With the recent musical chairs in the NACD and the complete lack of opposition in the NSS-CDS in the current election, it sounds like people are on to something.
So: What are you a member of and why? If none, why not?
CDS-access to Cow primarily. Current as of last fall, let membership lapse while I was away from cave diving due to proximity, only member for cave access
NACD-no current membership, have full cave certification through them and they have cool logo gear, but don't get anything out of being a member with them which is why I am no longer active
NFSA-believe they're doing incredible things for cave and spring conservation, far and beyond what CDS/NACD are doing *I understand MAG's conservation efforts are tremendous, but he is doing it with support from everyone and would be doing it on his own even if he wasn't Conservation Director for NACD
FSI-see NFSA
What he said.
Cds for cow
Nacd no interest after all of their bs(at least for a while)
Nfsa-probably doing the most obvious good
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nss-cds, nacd, nfsa.
Hmmm. I typed them in all caps, but they posted with only the first letter capitalized.
CDS - Underwater Speliology is much better and more regular than NACD Journal.
NACD - Still too burned by what happened to consider membership again.
iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.
Was a member of NSS-CDS when I wanted to dive Cow. Probably should be be a NFSA member. Never heard of FSI.
NSS-CDS - Certified through them, Really enjoy diving Cow, Like the magazine, and I enjoy the folks I have met at their gatherings.
NFSA - I like the work that is done and have enjoyed several volunteer opps.
NACD - Considered it the past, maybe some day...
Nacd, no idea why beside the magazine. Not like it opens up any dive site for me.
Will get nss-cds when. I finally dive cow.
My cave training is thru naui and dpv cave by TDI
Good group, I support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
As a new cave diver, I joined NSSCDS to see what they were all about. I do like the magazine and the idea of access to Cow (though never been) If I see orgs doing good, then I may join them.
I am a charter member of Florida Underwater Cave Education and Marineexploration, as well as a founding member of the Karst Underwater Navigation Team, and an associate member of Professional Underwater Scuba Instruction. Details are here:
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showth...ighlight=fucem
Just spit my coffee out remembering that one...=pQuote:
Originally Posted by OFG-1
Just because the organizations aren't always out banner waving on the forums and at dive sites does not mean they don't do anything and/or are worthless. I believe there is more going on than we hear about. These are volunteer organizations run by unpaid people who actually have to commit personal time and money. They are doing more than most of the complainers put together. Help them to improve by supporting them constructively.
CDG (Cave Diving Group) founded in 1946 :-)
Andrew
I joined the National Speleological Society, within which I’m a member of two grottos: the Cave Diving Section and the Minnesota Caving Club. I joined these chapters because they own cave entrances, and provide access to them to their members.
CDS - because I saw that they're tied to a large organization that fosters research around the world, and so I can meet and talk with speleological researchers. Also, as a PhD student paleoprimatologist involved with recovery and analysis of paleontological remains recovered from flooded caves, I'd hoped to learn more about cave research (deposition, stratigraphy, paleontology) and take advantage of the grants available from the NSS-CDS in pursuit of this research.
Anybody know ballpark numbers on how large current paid membership is for any of these organizations?
NFSA is approx. 250 people +/-. yearly dues are $15 (less than a nitrox fill)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M
Mission of the NFSA is provide support to Madison, Peacock, Lafayette, and Troy as a state park CSO.
Have provided a lot of tangible benefits to cave diving visitors- tank benches, walkway to P1, changing room, antislip treads Madison, interpretive trail etc etc.
And they do an excellent newsletter. I have been a member for the last couple of years and will continue to support the good work they do. Also am a member of the CDS, have been since becoming full cave in 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
CDS life member. Perhaps the only reason I am still a member. At least they do produce a periodical, and the weekend conventions are worth going to, if for nothing more than catching up with friends. (The haskel booster repair class a few years ago was awesome.) Unfortunately I feel (and have always felt) that they are more interested in your money reaped from instruction than they are in protecting caves, but that is true for most of the diving organizations. Perhaps some day will change, but I'm not holding my breath.
NFSA member because of the good work they are doing- NSS and two grottos the Northeast and CDS because of my interest in the science and geohistory. But still think the NACD has something to contribute if they keep moving forward.
I belong to:
NSS-CDS, as I want to eventually dive Cow,... I just need to find someone to dive with who knows it.
NACD (10 yr) was trying to help do some good in cave country, since I live so far away,.... that was until the shenanigans started, very disappointed.
NFSA, As some mentioned,... they seem to be doing more good at this point.
I will take you into Cow. just let me know when you will be in FL.Quote:
Originally Posted by tstormdiver
Apparently after this weekend's implosion of the NACD that's not gonna be moving forward very fast...Quote:
Originally Posted by Omisson
Dan, after what Dan posted yesterday I'd hardly call it implosion. It might have just been the pruning that was needed to revive it....
MAG was a breath of fresh air- his loss and his wife as ops manager is not "pruning"- rob Neto has done a great job reworking the training programs and has been out and about rebuilding... You think he needed to be "pruned"?Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
Is it wise to have Larry Back as TD? Wasn't the reason for that change in the first place to show the NACD was evolving and letting new blood in?
This sounds a bit opposite what you were recently posting. Those guys left of their own accord, they weren't "pruned". They were making a noticeable difference and were breathing new air into the organization. Perhaps you meant to convey a different message?Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
I don't know about MAG, but there was MUCH complaining about Jeff and Rob. Rob is now suspended for a possible standards violation..... clearly an awful Training Director choice.
Also, Jeff and Rob quit the same day as each other, just after Rick posts a giant thread about "cleaning house"and just before Robs suspension? I'm sorry, this was clearly a pruning. Not a bag thing, either. I'm getting really close to forking money over in support.
pruning may have been the wrong choice of words due them all leaving voluntarily, but this is what I actually meant.
Pruning is the removal of dead and some live parts of a plant to stimulate healthy growth. MAG left on his own accord, he was a tremendous asset to the NACD as conservation director as was Zelda in operations, their separation is unfortunate, and I think while the timing is coincidental to the other two losses, they are somewhat independent.
We have seen in the last day that RN is being investigated for training standards violations, we all know that this has been an issue with many in the past and we are all glad that it has come to light, JB was indirectly part of this because there have been reports filed with the NACD with no action, were their resignations due to this investigation? I don't know, but it seems that their resignation was going to be infinitely better than their dismissal.
I don't want LG back as TD, I don't think anyone really does, and I don't think Rick will appoint him as TD, maybe as interim until a new one is elected, but I don't think he will be the permanent solution. I will say that you can't have your TD suspended for standards violations though, so in that case whether they decided to resign independent of this situation, or because they knew this was coming, that is the removal of the bad to spur new growth for the better.
That's one way to interpret events...
Another would be the NACD publicly stating there were no complaints against RN and RN leaving of his own accord. Then a few days later posting a public shaming. Its no secret RN and LG butted heads a bit. Looks vindictive and like good ole boy politics to me.
I don't recall any formal statement that there were no complaints against him, but I doubt this is LG's doing, he and JB were far too close for it to work out like that.
Go to the SB thread, you can read Ricks own comments. He was specifically asked if RN leaving was related to allegations or an investigation and said no while speaking highly of RN. There no few if any committees and only 4 BOD members remaining to put forth an investigation. LG is one, two of the others are his students (from what I understand) and Rick. The release says 3 of 4 found evidence to investigate.
All this after Rick stating that protecting people's reputation was important, then going and naming some one instead of saying we are investigating an incident?
Sounds fishy to me
Sent via
My understanding is quite to the contrary of this.....like, Green got Neto appointed after stepping down. Rumor also has it that Jeff Bauer was protecting Green and Neto, which fits into why they're both gone AND why Neto is now being investigated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hammer
We can all spin it any way we want. What I see is a bunch of contradictions, regardless of whether RN violated standards or not. I still believe publicly condemning some one without due process stinks of politics and personal axes to grind is highly suspicious.
Sent via
ALL of it can be spun by someone as axe-grindy, but ALL of it is suspicious and purely politics. On that we agree 100%. We'll have to ride it out to determine if I've finally found an Org to fall in love with or if it's the same old crappy tune with a different band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hammer
so what Rick said, after reading that thread was that his resignation was not due to an accusation of the training violation.
Quote Originally Posted by ucfdiver View Post
Yes Rick, I will admit I was fishing. I was really curious if anyone who resigned, did so after being accused of training violations.
I thought so and I would have to say NO
Now, whether he knew that the accusation was coming and mentioned it before may be the reason, but he may have stated in his resignation letter that there were other reasons. He also mentioned confidentiality and it may have occurred during that session. What happened if he resigned, and then the meeting after the resignation included whether to suspend and investigate? Rick's answer could still be no.
He also mentioned the vote was 3/4, who's to say the 1 vote to not suspend/investigate was LG's? We don't know, we don't need to know, all that matters is how Rick handles replacing the rest of the board members. If LG goes back to TD, that will likely be the death knell of the organization, and I think Rick knows that, and because of that, I think he's going to be getting fresh blood back in there and hopefully try to move beyond all of this nonsense. If he does, I'll renew my membership with the organization after I stopped it when this whole thing started a few years ago, if LG goes back to TD, I can guarandamntee you that I won't put a penny into it until every board member is out of there
Maybe if we know what caused them to resign? Did they send a letter or issue a statement on why they resigned?Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
they did, but i'm sure that is confidential, meeting minutes might have them when they are made public, right now only members have access until Rick gets website access to post it
Man, I'm so torn. This drama is better than most Soaps, but it's SOO frustrating. It's like Walking Dead. The drama is juicy so I don't want to look away, but it's really missing the point of what I'm here for....
Really? You think this is drama?Quote:
Originally Posted by victorzamora
There has been no mention of illegal narcotics. No genitalia exposed. No handguns wielded.
No arrests have been made and no one has died in the process.
No caves have been closed or access blocked.
No 10 year olds were found diving in the cavern some and no recent gang bangs in a seedy motel room.
No one has been physically harmed or verbally threatened.
This recent nonsense hardly rates on the drama scale.
Just business as usual if you ask me.
Hahaha, fair enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
That is an incorrect assumption.
Excellent point!Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist
thanks for the clarification, will be waiting to see if Rick posts the resignation letters....Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelAngelo
Why would he do that? Whose business are those resignation letter, other than that of the board and the board members who resigned?Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
Uhh, the members of the NACD.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
Yes, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hammer
What I was trying to say was, it's not meant for the public to see, which is why I don't get why it should be posted.
I never said public, just published, so if it's available to the NACD members, then that is valuable information. Either way, the results of the investigation against RN will have to be published as well and that should shed light on a lot.
You said posted, not published.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone1004
Nonetheless, I believe the resignation letters should not be published either.
The BoD will need to answer to the NACD members and provide account for their actions.
There is no general right for the public to know who resigned for what reason.
Are you a member of the NACD? If not, of what business are their internal matters to you?
Though this may not have been directed at me, ill answer it. I am a concerned NACD member. Looking at what's going on here, it doesn't add up to what I'm being led to believe. Essentially it it stinks badly and I fear for an organization I believe could do good for the community. The resignation letters may help to clear up the BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
Sent via
I was, due to the corruption that caused this whole nonsense to come about I let my membership lapse a few years ago, and the outcome of this investigation will determine whether I renew or not, so that is why it matters to me, also why it matters to the boat load of people who did the same thing when "appointments" started happening instead of elections. How this is handled going forward will determine for me whether the NACD will regain my support, as it will for at least 20 or so divers that I have spoken with, and there are certainly more out there that are in the same boat.
Posted was in regard to the NACD members forum on their own site.
I started cave diving about 3 years ago and joined the NACD, then shortly thereafter the NSS-CDS, and most recently the NFSA. After the removal of Bert Wilcher I decided that the NACD management and decision-making process of the NACD were not that of an organization I wished to support. I was reconsidering that decision, but I consider this recent activity evidence that the NACD's management and decision-making have not improved, so I will not be renewing at this time nor to I expect to reconsider that decision any time soon (despite the involved parties public statements of continued support of the organization).
Note that I know nothing about anything that goes on with any of the involved parties beyond what is posted in social media and have no opinions on the right or wrong of any of the specific issues, only that the information publicly available indicates ineffective management and not that of an organization I want to support as a 'public face' of cave diving.
My disclaimers: my original cave instructor was a Bert Wilcher student, I had dinner with Bert one evening at the High Springs Diner, and I bought a couple of tanks from him; I did 2 - 4 dives with MAG one weekend over a year ago; and one of my earliest dive buddies is a friend of Rob Neto. Those are the only personal connections I have with any of the involved parties.
Just in case anyone involved with the NACD is interested in the impression they're making on one member of the new generation of cave divers.
Cancel my subscription(s) except NFSA and Florida Springs Institute
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed that is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead, Anthropologist