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OK, I posted this on facebook too, wondering what you think as I won't get a chance to try this till this weekend.
Seems logical, but then the guy is in a dry suit with aluminums...
Do you think it will work with a 3 mil wetsuit and faber 85's or 95's in a cave situation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNV2Iz4ydgI
man, i gotta get a house with a nice pool. I'd be practicing all kinds of tricks too.
Looks pretty good to me. Glad I have my drysuit though.
I think its baloney, personally.
Its one thing when the bottom is 3ft below you. Its completely different if the bottom is not (the case in quite a few caves), is very silty (again caves) or if you're in the ocean and the bottom REAL far away.
IMO if you can't move your flippers and swim against full tanks you need a drysuit.
Fairly slick in OW if you are on/near a hard area to use as a perch. Not the first time I have heard of this. Lift bag is a similar option to use for flotation but applied differently.
As for caves, why the hell would you even have a sausage with you? For the failed bladder? Nah. Drysuit is easier there.
Bob
....flippers....
The question was, do you think this will work >>>if you are diving wet.<<<Quote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
That guy's all set if he ever has a bladder failure in a pool.
After reading the title of the video I was expecting yellow water to appear around the diver and he was going to collect it with the SMB (lift bag would have worked better). I am sure he want to keep the water in the pool clean.
This brings up a serious issue though,
My buddy dives double 104's and he has a dual bladder.
I dive a 3 mil wetsuit and LP 85's, with an SMS 75.
They don't make a dual bladder for the 75.
I've wondered what happens if I'm 1000 feet back in peacock and have a bladder failure... Crawling out would be a MESS.
"JUST BUY A DRY SUIT" is not really an option. I don't want to dive dry. I really don't want to spend two grand on it either.
Shouldn't I have some sort of plan in case of bladder failure? This looks like a viable solution.
I suspect that the only way that'll you'll know if it works for you, is if you try it out for yourself. Just do it in open water.
OK... so I KNOW I am going to get flamed for this but if I have a bladder failure I am walking, crawling and swimming my way out (I also have a dual bladder Nomad LT Extreme with dual bladder). I have played around with no mount diving at Manatee Basin and can swim a single AL80 around (although buoyant) so an LP85 should be perfect. I think this is a viable option for anywhere I've dove as of yet.
Tim
I vote you grab onto his manifold and swim out with him.
You might not be able to if there is a real thick layer of silt in the cave.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Or if the line is on the ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by bent
Hence the practice of no mounting. :) my point was at the point of catastrophic buoyancy failure there are options. I mean really the history of BCD's really does start with the caving community, before then open water divers had to have their buoyancy pretty much right on, cave divers needed someway to not just become lead bricks on the bottom of the cave. I LOVE reading about milk jugs being tied to tanks. I can swim with an AL 80 and be just a tad buoyant, probably a bit negative with an LP85 and in an emergency like wing failure I'm pretty sure exiting the cave would be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by bent
Don't worry, you wont see me at 700' down Olsen holding an LP85 under my arm and kicking for all I"m worth just to prove that I could... I already annoy you guys enough by diving shorts-n-Tshirt.
Tim
There are actually very few caves you could crawl out of. Most caves have a variety of passages, and many would make crawling out very difficult. Having redundant buoyancy is very important for cave diving. While using your buddy as redundant buoyancy might work in some cases, it isn't really a very good option.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
I think I might understand now...you are actually contemplating this as an option in a cave. As in you will bring a safety sausage with you....Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Don't.
You should get a drysuit or a different kit. Or just quit cave diving. I mean: if you are really talking about crawling out of a cave or bringing in a safety sausage instead of planning to respond to an emergency in the most effective/least dangerous way--then this may not be the best hobby for you.
This is a variable/response you can easily eliminate/plan. Save such a creative response for a true ohshit moment.
To directly answer your question: yes, that guy could make that work in that pool in a wetsuit.
Your answer makes no sense at all. You are saying that the ONLY solution is to "just buy a drysuit" .... funny, I see people diving with sms 75's and wetsuits every weekend. I passed my cave class in a wetsuit. You are saying that nobody should be in a cave without a drysuit? reallllly?Quote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
"get a drysuit or a different kit"
"Or" would not imply "only" to me. And you quoted "just buy a drysuit" as if I said it...?
If you see people diving what you dive every weekend why wouldnt you ask them what their plan is?
You have had a full cave class in BM, I assume, and options for emergency mgmt would have been covered. What was covered in your SM class? I would have to think that the gear setup you have would be a subject for discussion with your instructor while in training. It nearly always is.
So, what was your instructor's input to manage this scenario? I would think he/she would be immensely more qualified than us internet toads.
And finally, no. I am not saying nobody should be in a cave without a drysuit. Please God dont tell me you interpreted that from my post. I hope you are extrapolating and using hyperbole to try and prove some unknown point you have.
Perhaps you read my post as an insult and are therefore defensive? It was not intended as such. I was serious: dont plan this option--pick something else as your parachute.
Bob
You have yet to say why it won't work. Just that you don't like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
If it were shorter, fatter and black, and named a trim pillow, would that make you like it more? Prior to this video I considered putting an MSR bag in the back of the BC to act as a dual bladder. Would that suffice since it is black and ninja-like and doesn't look open watery?
I'm going to try this and if you see a guy blow by you this weekend riding a safety sausage, wave hi.
I'll let you know on Monday if it works.
And no, I've never dove backmount doubles. I started in sidemount.
That whole response is hilarious!Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Trim pillow! Hah!
SM class that doesn't address backup inflation! Laughable!
Black and ninja like! Classic!
Bob
If anyone has any constructive input I'd love to hear it.
Will it work: possibly. But it should not be on your list of back up inflation options.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Constructive: drysuit; rework you kit; add the msr bag between you and your existing wing oral inflation only.
All WAY better than this idea. And all offered previously.
Lastly, PfcAJ even suggested being able to swim against full tanks if a bladder fails. You may have missed that? Most people add weight somehow, control that to limit your BC needs.
Constructively, I wonder aloud again: what did your class offer as options? Was this advised against and now you are looking to try it anyway? Or were no emergency buoyancy techniques taught?
I am curious, genuinely. I firmly believe that as a new diver your class should have had this in it or you did not get full value. Unless it was free.
I've tried it with a lift bag. It works, but I wouldn't call it ideal.
You could just whip out your Clorox bottle and be set though.:yawinkle:
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmaster
I would like to point out that I have worked in one or more dive shops for over nineteen years and I have never heard of a single total bladder failure.
I've witnessed a dump valve break off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
I've seen 3 due to delamination, one of them was mine, 2 were in the last week...
I had the inflator pull off in my hand (zip tie broke). With a barely enough wing for 104's, I couldn't keep enough air in the wing to float. Without the drysuit and a buddy I was on an elevator ride to the ground floor. If I'd had a bigger wing I likely could have trapped enough gas to be effective.
I've seen one come off of my buddy's wing. He was in a wetsuit and steel tanks and we did JB. We were able to fix it and he now dives a drysuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Crawling out wouldn't have worked where I was diving yesterday. The floor was 300' and covered in deep silt.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Mierda happens. One of my dive buddies accidentally pulled the corrugated hose out of his wing a month or two ago, he never skipped a beat because of his drysuit.
I sort of agree with you on this... again the history of cave diving included collapsed milk jugs as extra buoyancy, why not a safety sausage?Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by kensuf
Right tool for the dive. I totally agree with redundant buoyancy, but think that you should be diving the equipment necessary for the dive. Right now I dive in shorts and a t-shirt, when I get to the level that I will have to be doing deco stops then obviously I'll need something that will help me stay warm on extended periods of non-movement. Suddenly the guy that never wore a wet-suit will be in a dry suit and you guys will give me grief for it. But it will be required for those dives. I think a safety sausage is a viable alternative for some dives as redundant buoyancy and not for others.
Again, just my uneducated opinion, it will surely change.
:)
Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
Do you really? You don't get cold, man?
Not even a 3mm wetsuit? Lucky you I guess
There's tons of stuff that goes on in cave diving that spans the spectrum from 'less than ideal' to 'that a terrible idea'.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Al80s in a wetsuit? Rock out. Steels without a drysuit? Ya might have a bad time if things don't go as planned.
Is your BC a duel bladder?
REALLY like your signature quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by perryL927
Now with a drysuit, I don't feel the need to find a system with a dual bladder like I used to. I sometimes think I'd like one anyway so I have the freedom to switch to my wetsuit and steels if the need should arise. I have thought about rigging my tiki bill wing under my sms75, and glad to hear others had similar ideas.
Where to begin?Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Depending on the smb there are different volumes and therefore different lift capacities. If it's 20pounds - two steel 85s or 95s aren't lofting. If it's 35 or 50 pounds of lift they are.
It's irrelevant IN A FAILURE what the bottom composition is- in that you are screwed absent being in a dry suit in a cave with silt - BUT you still need buoyancy to get out of the situation so the lift bag is an option.
I'm able to dive semidry in the Florida caves under 2 hrs (most of my Cave diving) quite comfortably. But use a sms100d- so I have a redundant bladder- but if I used the sms75 having a stowed dsmb/lb is an alternative that could work.
The point is - it's a reasonable Sidemount redundant bladder for emergency use.
Drysuit gives you the immediacy that a lift bag (or ever a double bladder) doesn't. Just push the button and gas goes in right away, vs dicking around with a lift bag that stuck in a pocket somewhere and probably requires 2 hands to get going.
Think it through.
Not to mention you would be sinking rapidly the whole time :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
FWIW, I have had BC failures, and it isn't pretty. Even a drysuit is marginal. They want to keep burping out the neck seal. If you try to keep your head down, you run the risk of inverting.
Depending on the cave, a scooter can help compensate the lack of buoyancy too.
A little, but a BCD failure would cause you to kick up a LOT of silt.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
:clapper:clapper Story time!!??!! :clapper:clapperQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
I fear none on this thread are the right tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by twaldo
And doubtful on the change.
Bob
I used to only shower once a week, now I shower 3 times a week. If thats not change I don't know what is....Quote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
So change happens, probably more than you realize. :)
-Tim
Plenty of tools on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
....bliss....
I'm almost afraid to ask: how many Tshirt and shorts dives count as "showers"?
Sure, but right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Draker
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
DUH !!!! all of themQuote:
Originally Posted by floridabob
Unless you have a dual bladder BCD, I would say to you, that you should not be in a cave with a wet suit. I would further say that if you plan to use a drysuit for back-up buoyancy, you'll need gaitors (spats) and keepers to keep from blowing your fins off.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint
Seems like you've already decided on a plan that involves saving money at the expense of safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmint