So I'm ordering a DUI drysuit and went through all the options... The only thing I'm hung up on is whether to go with rock boots or turbo tec soles.
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So I'm ordering a DUI drysuit and went through all the options... The only thing I'm hung up on is whether to go with rock boots or turbo tec soles.
FWIW,when I had a TLS350 I found the turbo soles were constant leak points,as well as other people I knew. The thing that I did,and I would do it again,was I put Dive Rite 905 boots on the suit,which eliminated a weak point,and provided a nice fitting boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuluMich
I have a TlS 350 with the Turbo Soles. They don't hold up well. Diving sidemount is rough on the feet of a drysuit especially in a high flow cave where you have to use your feet to push off the ceiling. I much prefer socks and just use regular neoprene dive booties. As they get chewed up you just get another pair. I also don't like the floaty feet feeling I get with Turbo Soles.
You didn't ask but I don't like the Zip Seals either the wrists seals are very rigid with the plastic collar and the shape of the DUI seals do not seal as well as those seals that are Coke bottle shaped. The edges of the DUI seals are pointed and seal on a smaller surface than those seals that have a large flat area.
Great info, this will help a lot, thanks!
Wouldn't go with either. Rock boots are cheaply made (probably bought 6 pairs over the years), are heavy in water and take time to put on and take off, a real bummer when it's really hot out. The turbos go on and off quickly but you can't turn them inside out to dry. Don't know about you but I need to turn my suit inside out each night to dry dry the next day.
Dan Wright talked me into using regular wetsuit boots. They are great on rocks, cost less, zip on and off quickly, are positive in the water (good if you have "heavy" feet in the water) and offer a degree of insulation from the neoprene.
I have both and do not like rock boots. Just one more thing to deal with. My turbo soles have leaked, but a little aquaseal solved the problem.
I may pickup a pair of wetsuit boots and try instead of the rockboots.
I also have both zip and regular latex seals. Would of never purchased zipseals if I was buying new but they came on a suit I pickup used. For both the neck and wrist zip seals, I peeled off the old latex seal from the zip ring and glued on replacements. Went with the bottle neck seals for the wrists.
Al
Which one offers more warmth? If it even makes a difference.
I've had both and it doesn't really matter to me. For my last custom TLS-350 I believe I flipped a coin.
But you might consider asking DUI if you can go with the neo-socks (what they call the feetie things when you go with Rock Boots) and get twenty or thirty bucks off by not getting the Rock Boots, and use scuba booties instead. I used my Rock Boots once, and have used booties ever since.
Go with the rockboot option, just don't use the rockboot. I don't believe they allow you to have the "sock" on the end of the suit without sending you rockboots too. If you look at people's feet with turbosoles, they are always getting glued back together and they're constant points for pinholes. According to DUI the tec turbosoles are better, but I don't know anyone that has them.
The pro to the "sock"(I don't know what else you call it) that comes with the rockboot option is that you have tons of choices. Rockboots just don't fit most people well. So you could try some converse Chuck's. Many like those, I didn't. You could find a large wetsuit bootie to use which allows for smaller fins. Or you can search around for other "rockboots." We're lucky enough to have a local shop that has boots made by scubapro, dui, hollis, white's, and one other in stock. I tried them all and really like the Scubapro ones. I stole the little quick lock that comes with the rockboots and changed the shoestrings, but as a whole the scubapro ones are nice. They've lasted over 150 dives so far with no signs of major wear.
http://www.scubapro.com/en-US/USA/su...suit-boot.aspx
Well thanks for all the input.
My new FLX Extreme has the tec turbosoles. They suck. Go with the socks and dive bootie option.
In other news, the QZ Quick Zip SUCKS. I don't know anybody that likes it. Get the Classic Zipper.
This helps a lot. Sounds like I'll go with the rock boots then once they where out explore booties or chucks. Thanks for all the help.
recommend the turbo soles. there is an option now with kevlar over the seams. they do not leak at all with this option.
you will like your life a lot more with turbo soles than rock boots and socks
Because of ankle rotation or the annoyance of taking longer to suit up or other?Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
I did fail to mention the negatives to boots in general not just rockboots. You'll be slower gettin geared up and a i tried a friends suit with booties and i definitely had more abkle rotation. You do however get easily used to making boots work
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having to remember to bring them, tying them tight enough to stay on can be uncomfortable and they restrict mobility and can trap gas, laces coming untied etc.
i've had both and much prefer the reinforced turbosoles. piece of advice if you go with boots. keep the boots in the fins so you dont leave them at home ;)
Hmm the tec turbo soles?
I have turbo soles and like them fine. I prefer them, even if rock boots have some better features,
they would be more gear (as already stated) to keep track of, pack for travel, etc.
I have an early version of the 'tec' soles. Happy with them. My new suit is on order with the new version
I have the turbo soles on my FLX. They have developed leaks here and there, but for the most part, it's an easy fix. I would recommend having toe caps put on the turbo soles if you go that route. And you actually can turn the suit inside-out completely with turbo soles, though it does take some work, but not a big deal.
I also have the zip seals on the wrists as well. I agree that the cone style seals do not hold very well, but I replaced them with some inexpensive bottleneck seals I bought from Bluewatersports (I think they cost me under $30 a pair) and they hold really well. Once the cone seals wore out, I cut them off, saving the zip ring portion and simply glued the bottleneck seals on top. Couldn't be happier with them, the difference is night and day.
If you have narrow feet the turbo soles are awful. They roll under your feet when you walk. The best money I ever spent was getting Gamble to make a pair of the Rock Boot style socks to fit my narrow size 12 feet and he recommend I wear regular scuba booties. Very happy with that combo. Many people wear tennis shoes if they wear XL fins and have size 10 or under feet.
My DUI CF200 has the "footie pajamas" socks and came with rock boots. I use Trident fin keepers and neoprene booties. Comfortable, warm, fit into my fins well, and I have more foot and ankle flexibility than with the rock boots.
I have been diving a variety of dry suits with the rock boot socks since the late 90's. Conditions have ranged from the 20's to the 70's, so lots of variety in undergarments and layers.
After all my attempts to find the perfect boot and fin combinations I have no definitive answer.
Settled on a combination of two sizes of rock boots and two sizes of neoprene booties with three different sizes of fins.
The new rock boots are not very good quality versus the old style.
I would also note that my TLS350 has started to develop leaks after 3 years of hard use, while my CF200 is going strong after 15 years. (zipper, seals and zip seal retrofit excluded)
Of all the features and accessories by far the best thing I have added to the dry suits is the pee valve!
Yep, that would be spot-on true. That's why I had to try my buddy's suit with turbo soles. I left my boots hanging out to dry at Protec and didn't want to drive all the way back from Minotauro after having gear all set up.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
Only negative was I had to keep the dive short as I'm sure he didn't want me trying out his pee valve.
FWIW, my first TLS had Turbo Soles, and I made it work, but had Gable replace them with Socks on my most recent suit rebuild. I need caving boots on my feet when I get out of the water. My new TLS came with socks, but the Rock Boots they sent with the suit are absolutely not size 10 like my older size 10 Rock Boots? Something's wrong with their sizing more recently, in that the new ones are much "larger". More positives than negatives to socks, IMO.
The older non-reinforced turbosoles develop leaks where the fin rubs the compressed neoprene. For me, its the instep and toe. DUI's recently came out with a kevlar reinforced option that holds up MUCH better. It covers the toe, instep, and the heel.
Imo, the addition of Fin Keepers over the turbo sole makes them much more stable for walking around steep slopes while not adding bulk around the ankle. If you forget them at home its on the end of the world, either.
I had problems with regular turbosoles developing leaks and the "right" size was still too floppy (wide). On one of, ahem, several trips back west, before the "tech" turbos, DUI reinforced them with additional neoprene and the fit and leaks improved. I'd definitely get the tech/Kevlar turbosoles over the standard, and personally prefer any built-in over socks/boots.
I did the same thing as Mark. I got to laugh at him repeatedly falling down a slick mud slop on a sump trip with his turbo soles. But then I fell down the same slope with my turbo soles.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenner
On my old TLS I stil have turbo soles. They are more aqua seal than neoprene now and still leak. Spring straps wear them out quick and they are expensive to replace.
I recently tore a huge hole in the boot of my CLX450 and had it replaced with socks. I can wear a real boot now when caving or normal dive booties when cave diving. I would rather buy a new pair of booties every 6 months than replace my turbo soles every few years.
I really like the zip seal on the neck. I have both silicone and latex. On the wrist I still like glued bottle neck seals.
i've had my turbo soles for about five years now with zero leaks diving it pretty hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavermatt
Sorry Brian, you are correct, I should not have attached a time frame. Individual milage may vary. I am hard on equipment. One set of Turbo Soles lasted a year, and the other is nearly 5. They were not brand new when I purchased them though.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
I love my DUI suits and am even more satisfied with the sock option.
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MyThe reinforced ones make all the difference. The bare turbo soles will eventually leakQuote:
Originally Posted by cavermatt
I have the socks on both of my DUI suits (350 and the 50/50). I have no idea as to how DUI came up with the design but we often refer to them as elf socks and the very pointed toe area is a joke. It is designed like a pointed toe highheel design. Extra material that tapers way too narrow. When kitting up, if you get it wrong you will have a pain the entire dive. The Rock boots are very heavy but hold up well to wear and tear. During the last trip in Fla. I made a mistake of leaving the Rock books at Ginnie. I got a pair of Neo. booties from Cave Excusions and love them. I will not go back to the Rock boots. I was also thinking that if I get the chance to do walk in reef dives again like Okinawa, I can use the felt sole booties aposed to the rubber sole booties which are just a slip and slide boot on the reef.
I will also add that when you have the boots made into the suit, when they wear out (and they will) you have to pay the extra bucks to get them replaced.
This is why I like putting up these questions on here. The best way to research a product in diving is to ask cave divers since every piece of gear gets put through the gauntlet.
For those that have given up on rockboots and went with wetsuit boots. How did you guess what size to get? Short of going to your LDS with your suit. My rockboots are size 13, would a person get 13 or go larger for the wetsuit boots?
Thanks, Al
I thought rockboots were over sized to match the shoe size you wear. I used Chuck Taylors with the socks on my Evo2 suit and 2 sizes up fit great. I enough room for thicker cold water socks when diving the Midwest and they worked well in cave country too.
I took my drysuit and undergarment socks to the dive shop. I wear a size 12 -13 street shoe and it took a size 15 scuba bootie.
The Tec Boot SUCKS, mine started to delaminate and could see where the fin was wearing through the "kevlar" overlay in less than 150 dives. I love that they are narrower than the rock boot and will not get lost or mixed up with the wife's, but, weight your options carefully.
I've had my FLX with turbo soles for a couple years now with no leaks at all. I appreciate not having to remember another piece of gear or lacing boots.