http://vimeo.com/117723088
I had the opportunity to go to the Abyss Room in Eagle's Nest with Andy Pitkin and Brett Hemphill of KUR. Vis wasn't great (so I'm told, looked ok to me!), but the dive was bad ass!
Enjoy :)
Printable View
http://vimeo.com/117723088
I had the opportunity to go to the Abyss Room in Eagle's Nest with Andy Pitkin and Brett Hemphill of KUR. Vis wasn't great (so I'm told, looked ok to me!), but the dive was bad ass!
Enjoy :)
Outstanding!
I did that dive about a year ago. There is no line in there except some survey lines. I heard one of them is Shek's line.
There's no shortage of lines in there now. Its a spider web of lines to no where.
Using the strobe made me nervous.
what were the runtimes ? max pen distance?
45min BT, 269min RT, and I'm not 100% sure of the distance, but by the numbers its around 2k to the room.
TJ,
There are way too many lines in there. Sheck's line is the one that goes right at the first 4-way T after you get into the room. I believe he was with Larry Green and George Irvine on that dive. It goes down into some breakdown with static water and crumbly limestone, right around 300 feet. Sometimes you can see a halocline there.
It would be nice to tidy the lines up, but it's got history - just look at the line arrows next time you're in there. And it really is hard to get lost in that room. If you follow any line in the direction of its arrows you will get back to the exit. If you leave a strobe you can take a short cut. Not sure why it would make you nervous.
AJ, it's exactly 2000 feet penetration to the far side of the Abyss.
Andy
All the lines in caves like that do give it a little bit of charm!Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
Thanks man. How far across is the room? 100ft or so?Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
Max depth?Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Max 291 avg 270
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
Andy,
The day Blue Tickle(Jonathan) and I dove it the vis was "milky" and the strobe we had didn't penetrate as well. So when cruising around the room you would lose site of it. It's hard to believe Larry and Company dove that on doubles with air. The room is huge and some very cool formations that you don't see elsewhere in Eagles Nest.
TJ
There is definitely some line in there. Safety should always trump history IMHO. But unlike the main upstream and downstream tunnels that were cleaned up of extraneous line and numerous dead-ends, if you are back in this area the assumption is you know what you are getting yourself into, are squared away, and should have the requisite skills to deal with the situation. And given that room maybe gets hit a dozen times a year (if that), it shouldn't be a major concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
Mike
You bring up some good points. I agree safety should trump history,especially when some caves have very old twisted #18,but some old line with duct tape line arrows or items of significance,if removed deserves to be archived.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney00
I see what is meant by a cob web of lines from the video. One thing I noticed the divers do was make an artificial T with pulling line over to another placement. This practice had lead to 3 fatalities I am aware of in the past,which may not be as likely at this site,but with the depth considerations,there is less time resolve problems that do occur with this practice. But,"And given that room maybe gets hit a dozen times a year (if that), it shouldn't be a major concern.",now that a video has been posted,the curiosity level goes up exponentially ,as well as those that will do that dive,so line consolidation is probably more important than ever.
How would making that intersection a T cause a fatality? It's now tied in and marked appropriately with an arrow on the outbound side.
The line was not just yoinked over and placed there. It's now a real T.
the lines should be cleaned up but it's hard to convince the few people who go to places like that to spend a dive cleaning the line up instead of having a fun dive.
it seems like every big room i've ever seen that's deeper than 200' looks like that.
might be easier to convince new explorers to remove their line when they run into a wall in the same room they started in ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
I believe the correct terminology is "re-explorers".
Hah, I like that!
HilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by Draker
It has on several occasions. Because of your location that probability is low because there wasn't a team in the system (probably). What has happened is a T was created by pulling over line by one team. Another team passing the same spot sees the T and makes a turn down the line. When the other team that originally moved the line puts it back so there is no longer a T, the other team suddenly has a dead end. I am sure there are more details like the other line was not visible due to silt, out of view etc,but the second team assumes a navigation error and went back into the cave. Yes this has lead to a couple fatalities,also snap and gaps which are similar has lead to a couple incidents. I would say the only time it is a real T is when is has a permanent nature and can't be moved.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Chief, look. There was no one else there. ~1300' into Eagle's Nest at 280ft deep, on a Monday morning, no other cars in the parking lot, no other deco gases in the water.
I think its safe to say we were all alone...
Making this junction back to the little reach gap thing that it was will require either some serious underwater knot untying skills or a knife. Its now as permanent as anything else cave line related is.
I only mentioned the history aspect as some felt the relining of the main passage in EN should not have been conducted in order to "preserve history." Given the accessibility and amount of traffic in the main tunnels, that concern was ignored. That is not to say we did not preserve the original line, transfer arrows when possible, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Again, those that go to this area should not be ignorant of what they are getting themselves into. And seeing most, if not all, are on CCR, the time issue is not really as significant (aside from adding to deco). I had originally thought about adding a statement about the video potentially leading more divers to that area, but given the logistics and reality associated with this dive, I don't really think that is a serious concern IMHO. This area has been talked about for years and you have not seen an explosion of divers going back there. Well, I guess if you consider going from 3-4 divers up to 12-14 divers an explosion, I guess you got me there.... ;>)
That being said, if someone wants to clean up the area back there to get rid of dead-end lines and facilitate future exploration, I would not be opposed to that effort. It just ain't going to be me...LOL.
Cheers,
Mike
as long as everything back there is properly marked it should'nt be a huge deal to anyone capable of getting back there
I agree with what you are saying,safety is a primary concern. I also remember when relining of an area of Eagles Nest was done for safety reasons, and it brought a hail storm of condemnation. I never quite understood what the issue was (actually I do,but just can't understand some human behaviors). Kudos to you for having the concern and interest,because Eagles Nest has earned a bad reputation,always better to make it a safe place.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney00
Just a comment,not for your edification only. Yeah you were probably alone,and 0% chance another team would encounter this "artificial T"-that day. Can't ignore the deaths that have occurred with artificial Ts,and snap and gap incidents,and the reason for the occurrence in each case was simple human error-someone forgot to put it back. I think you guys make some great comments on the state of the lines there,and it is good that you post warnings on what to expect so people can anticipate treading carefully. As with dives that become goal driven often times we are focused on the goal, and not the details, and your video is great in exemplifying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Kelly. It's not an artificial T anymore. It's a real T. Tied in. Marked with an arrow. I don't do reach gaps, snap gaps, artificial Ts or anything of the sort. I also don't mess with lines when someone else is in the cave.
If you'd like to make that T something different you're more than welcome to it make it how you please.
Thank you Anthony for the invitation,if it makes you happy,then it makes me happy :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Who's Anthony?
Perhaps if you took a picture of the newly created "T" and sent it to him he might understand?
A "T". Not a temporary overlay. As stated in your first response.
But then, I read for content not combat....
Anthony.
Bob
It's a permanent T now. Thanks to aj for cleaning up some snap n gap nonsense in there
Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
I think he's a friend of Francis.
Owe you an apology for the wrong name,it must be those deep air dives coming back to haunt me. Thank you for your clarification, and my apologies if my comments came off as a rant.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Kelly has a good point.
Ask Larry Green about old line and his recovery of a diver in EN. Old line may have prevented him from getting out alive. (Yes his own line contributed also)
One would think that trained and experienced cave divers couldn't possibly get in a situation like those two did but the determination of people to do stupid things is amazing.
Just saying, anyone who thinks it is impossible for someone to get back to the abyss room and get tangled up in old line is wrong. I guarantee you it is well within the capabilities of someone out there.
go put some goldline in there and remove the old stuff. i'd donate the goldline...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
every deep room is like this. wakulla room, tons of leon sinks stuff, deep salt. pretty sure emerald was like this too before the wkpp went in there and relined it and it was re-opened. that was before my time though
once the spiderweb is there it's hard to get anyone to sign up to go remove it.
The line back there isn't the type that is loosey goosey draped on the floor. There's just extra lines ran to nowhere. Through the restrictive bits it's actually pretty good.
There are still some parallel lines toward the back of the main passage, though, but the main one is excellent.
I've relined a few sections of a few caves, but relining stuff at 270' (which I've done before) is an all day affair.
Couldn't agree more. I got some line donated to a group that did some line replacement, and there was the biggest s*** storm from people who objected,and felt it shouldn't be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
Keep the arrows, replace the line, IMO.
i dont know that anyone would care if someone would clean up the lines back there. it doesn't get much traffic. but it's all academic because no one's going to do it ;)
Shoot photos and video for history and then make it safe.
I suspect nobody would object to fixing the lines in the Abyss Room, because few divers ever go there, and those that do would probably be the ones fixing it. I would estimate that less than 1% of dives in the Nest are to this room, whereas people scooter to the "EOL" all the time (or should that be EOGL?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
It would be a relatively straightforward task to put in a circuit of gold line around the room and remove (or cut back) the other lines to avoid confusion. I don't think it is likely to make much difference to safety, because all the existing lines are correctly marked with arrows; if you accidentally jump over to the wrong line it will still get you to the exit. I think some people are imagining it's a real mess - it's not. It is definitely not perfect, but that's true of the line in a lot of caves and any competent cave diver should be able to cope with it.
Probably true.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiteHedded
Funny, he was one of the individuals that was upset that all that extraneous old line was removed and a single gold line was installed in the main upstream/downstream passages. So probably not the right guy to ask....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
LOL... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by barney00
Safe diving,
Rich
For what it's worth, we were back there this morning. It's nicely tee'd and is very clear what is going on. Good job and thanks, AJ and group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
What kind of camera an lights were used for that video?
Brian
Agree 100% If you are seasoned enough to get back there, navigating those lines should not be a problem at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
In the accident to which you refer the "errant" line was uncomfortably close to the "main" line of which there were multiple parallel lines. They undoubtedly trashed the viz at the bottom of the Pit Restriction and grabbed the first line they found and wound up in the pocket. There were also not as many arrows as there could have been which may have been a contributing factor, at least for the one guy who went the wrong way once he found the main line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Ask Larry Green about old line and his recovery of a diver in EN. Old line may have prevented him from getting out alive. (Yes his own line contributed also)
One would think that trained and experienced cave divers couldn't possibly get in a situation like those two did but the determination of people to do stupid things is amazing.
Something like that is far less likely to happen with the Gold line installed the way it is. Every line in its vicinity has been either removed or cut back so you can't accidently get on it, even in zero viz.
Sony A7S in a Nauticam housing and Nikonos 15mm lens, Mangrove lights on the camera and homebuilt lights on the scooter. They are 120W and producing around 12000 lumens each.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic
Thanks for the info Andy.
Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by apitkin
Hi andy, do you mind sharing a picture of the mount setup for the lights and camera onto the scooter?
thx
What was the vis like up to the jump?Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bil
What is really funny is that is not even close to what he said after the search and recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney00
was in the lockwood tunnel yesterday and vis was 20' at best downstream to the lockwood jump. not sure if it improves further downstream or notQuote:
Originally Posted by Dsix36
Roughly 40'. The nest ain't what she used to be. Basin was 50' or so, cavern sucked, maybe 20-30. It got clearer as we got further, with the clearing (such as it is) starting once through the pit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsix36
That is pretty accurate,but if someone is describing 20ft, sounds more like a river caveQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bil
80' in the back of the lockwood though. dont get me wrong, it's not all bad ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
There were some classes going on, so that might have contributed to the lower vis. But it was definitely less than when I was there a few weeks ago.
Surprisingly easy to tell that other people were there, too ;)
And I've only been diving there since 2009. I'd love to have sen it in the 80's. Quite frankly, if I had to dive there now on OC, I believe I'd have to pass. Nothing like using $5.00 worth of helium for a Nest dive��.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop