At the Cavern and Intro. to Cave levels is training better done in high or low flow? There seem to be at least 2 schools of thought on this issue and I would like to hear some opinions.
Merry Christmas to all....
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At the Cavern and Intro. to Cave levels is training better done in high or low flow? There seem to be at least 2 schools of thought on this issue and I would like to hear some opinions.
Merry Christmas to all....
Low flow.
There is so much new when you start cave diving, you dont want high flow as an extra.
ciao, mart
I would agree training should start with low flow and master the basics there. However, I don't think any card should be issued until a diver can perform adequately under a variety of different conditions (including flow).
both
Both, without a doubt.
Dalcher made me do a lot of drills just before the chimney at LR, in ripping flow; I learned so much from that experience.
dave
If you can cave dive in high flow then low/no flow is easy, but if all you dive is low/no flow then you'll have "issues" when you hit Devil's, Manatee, Little River etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by Serota
An ideal Cavern/Intro class will expose you to both, which can easily be done in N FL.....
Safe diving,
Rich
Both.
Being able to manage flow is important. I'd say the first day of actual diving should be somewhere with low/no flow (e.g. Peacock) but I believe its important for you to be able to manage flow - because a lot of caves (e.g. JB, Ginnie, Madison, etc) have it, and its important for you to be able to do things like run a reel and keep your trim and buoyancy under those conditions.
LR is a prime example - if you can't keep your act together in high flow you're in trouble coming back up that chimney......
I think learning how to tie in gaps or jumps and reel work would be best learned in high flow. If you can get it down in high flow its easy in low flow. BUT, learning finning techniques and bouyancy control should be learned in a low flow cave. It seems that people that only dive Ginnie, Little River, Manatee, etc. sometimes forget how easy it is to silt out a very low or no flow cave.
Agreed...
Twin is a great example..... and an example of why primaries can be important (the entrance to the shelf is both low and silty, with essentially no flow; one touch and......)
Actually, they should be learned in either OW or the Cavern zone before you enter the cave environment......Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
Safe diving,
Rich
You got that right. Two friends and I, who have done most of our recent diving at Jackson Blue, swam from Peacock 1 to Waterhole last week. We all couldn't believe how sloppy our technique had become. (We all have over 400 cave dives.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Titen
Russell
Add some wreck diving to your mix. You will find out right quick if you've gotten sloppy...... better run that line too :D
BTW, while JB has a ripping flow, Twin and Hole do not. They're both quite easy to silt up, especially Twin in a number of places....
Most instructors take you into both inviroments I know mine does. But anyway I do not agree with the whole thing if you can deal with flow then low flow or no flow is easy. If you want to test your skills and do a dive do the dark water tunnel in Peacock or do P3 then tell me that low flow is not a problem. I feel that the divers get used to the high flow and tend to get a little lazy with their skills 'cause they are used to the high flow then they dive a low flow and man the cave goes to crap real quick.
I am just back from my first dives in high flow caves (Florida). Most diving before was in Mexico, hardly any flow but very fragile caves. I found a lot of my skills disappeared fast, Little River was more like the wreck diving over here. So I agree, you need no flow caves to really fine tune a lot of your skills. Add flow, and you will manage.Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer
LOL Kevin, low flow is not a problem, crappy technique is... ;-)
Safe diving,
Rich
Well yes I agree Rich my ole friend how you been? Yes poor technique is the true problem. But I did a dive in both and wow you better have your stuff together if you want to dive in clear water but if you don't oh well it is good for on the line no vis dive education LOL.
Things are great, Cheryl and I finally got moved into the new place :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jammer
Safe diving,
Rich
P.S. What really helps in the Dark Water tunnel is doing the duckunders sideways rather than head on.... ;-)
Great guy i am glad you guys are doing great and by the way congrats on the Instructor course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I prefer to dive the low flow/no flow systems for 2 reasons:
1. You don't get tired nearly as quickly because you're not fighting the outflow, which equates to more enjoyable dives and longer penetrations.
2. They encourage you to maintain good buoyancy control and finning techniques so you don't stir up clouds of silt in front of the diver(s) behind you.
I've noticed a couple of times when I go to FL that it takes a dive to adjust to being in flow. Most of the caves here have little to no noticable flow when they are divable.
We get much more direct flow from the surface so levels and vis change very quickly with rainfall.
Both...you need training in both, experience in both, and knowledge of both. There is no need to over task yourself, but understanding the characteristics of both flow and no flow caves is important and you should have training and experience in both.
Dave
www.divingindepth.com
*poof*Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis
It looks like snow in there.