Trouble at Morrison Springs

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11-27-2005 09:28 PM
flyczek

Trouble at Morrison Springs

After a great getaway to cave country from my Texas exile I decided to stop by Morrison Springs on the way out of town and try once again to get one of the eels to pose for me.

My buddy and I geared up with our backmounted doubles and I set up my camera. As I'm gearing up I noticed what I judged to be 2 OW students gearing up nearby. The guy who I judged was their instructor was diving a single tank with a bungied long hose and a canister light. The three of them entered the water before us.

As my buddy and I waded in one of the OW students popped to the surface. She said she had been in the cavern and was below 500psi. I think she had been in the water for maybe 5 minutes. As my buddy and I swam toward the entrance I noticed that someone had tied a rope from the swim platform at 20 feet down to the lower cavern entrance. The rope swung loosely back and forth in the flow leading past the grim reaper sign into the cavern. There was a chem light zip tied to the rock nearby. I began to wonder if I would have to do a body recovery.

We entered uneventfully, thankfully the two remaining divers exited alive. After taking a few photos I looked up at the entrance to see the guy with the bungied hose and what I think was the low air diver entering the cavern. She appeared to get entangled in the rope and then flop down onto the ledge. She came loose and then literally tumbled into the cavern. The long hose guy swam in and zip tied another chemlight to the far edge of the cavern. Quite a spectacle.

Anyway, to make a long story short; I know there are no dive police and Morrison isn't managed by anyone, but something should be done. I would hate to see this great site closed due to fatalities. I probably just should have removed the rope while I was there, but now that I'm back in Texas it is a little late. Any volunteers?
11-27-2005 10:26 PM
john

at the NACD seminar the TDI guy had a similar story. the ending was better he went to the desk and looked at the records and got the instructors name. he then called the ow agency and the guy that called him back was a cave diver.
he said the ow instructor nolonger instructs.

no there are no cave police but there is a guy taking students where they should not go and an ego that will let him give you a business card with his name on it.

padi, naui, ssi, sdi if they dont care about what happened they will damm sure care that they had an instructor not try to sell more training.
business polices the areas where no police are present...
11-28-2005 07:18 AM

Well, on the plus side, this is going on there nearly every day and no one has gotten hurt yet. Maybe it's not so dangerous. I did notice the rope last time, too, and it was quite annoying. I at least tried to wrap it somewhere so it would be taut, but probably should have removed it.

Here is the rope heading out.

http://northfloridadiver.net/media/p...105/016_14.JPG
11-28-2005 08:25 AM
Tegg

I don't agree with "we have to do something"...

There is a grim reaper sign, is there not?

Look, sometimes no matter what you do, Darwin will get them.
11-28-2005 09:07 AM
Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D
11-28-2005 09:45 AM
Serota

OW instructor of not?

Before we go overboard condeming OW instructors (and yes, I am one) are we sure that what was observed was an instructor and 2 students? Could it have been a somewhat more experienced diver showing off for 2 less experienced divers? No less of a crime and maybe even more dangerous, but lets convict the guilty.
11-28-2005 09:51 AM
OutlawCaver

Losers blew the cave shut in 1968. Their descendants are probalby more than happy to come back and finish the job.
11-28-2005 11:51 AM
jammer

Well one of my family members is an explosive engineer and we can open it back up no problem. He also is a Cert. Scuba diver and Wreck diver cert.
11-28-2005 04:18 PM
Genesis

Its called the Sportsman Act guys and gals, and Walton County is absolutely immune from suit because they are not charging for access.

As such there is nobody to sue, and nobody to make a huge fuss. If someone cacks themselves after reading the nice big fat SIGN then either (1) the sign is preachy instead of informative, and we need to fix that - good luck, given the industry's view of things or (2) its fine as it sits but people are just going to ignore it no matter what.

Those are your options - pick one.

Either way, I say there's nothing to "do about it." There's no liability issue and if someone wants to cack themselves diving I see no reason why we should be concerned about it. It is their life and their choice; to the extent we push policies that make it our problem we are to blame, not them.

What we should, IMHO, be doing is:

1. Insuring that the signs are informative INSTEAD of preachy. You tell me what you think the current signage is. I know what I think of it.

2. Working to get MORE sites open like Morrison - no fee, no "card cops." Therefore, under the Florida Statutes, NO LIABILITY.

While we're at it we can start educating law and policy makers. How about if we give them copies of the instructional releases we all have signed - you know, the ones that say decompression, diving in overheads, using gases other than air and diving deeper than you can safely ascend from one one breath greatly increase the risk of DEATH OR SERIOUS INJURY along with a whole host of other warnings of our impending doom and our willful acceptance of these risks, evidenced by our signatures!

Let's actually SOLVE problems rather than creating them and closing ourselves out of more and more diving sites.

Diving is NOT as safe as bowling. I need to show no card nor sign a liability waiver to go bowling, even though I'm paying for it. We've been telling officials we can do this "safely" for years, but we're being dishonest - my proof is in the waiver warning me of my impending death that I must sign to take a class, get on a boat, or sign into Ginnie.

Just in case you think I'm being incredibly harsh here on the signage and those who created the current incarnation of "rules", let me relate something to you.

I've stopped people from going in the hole at Morrison.

I didn't do it by actually stopping them, however.

I did it by sitting just off the exit, just out of the flow, holding horizontally (truth be told, doing a semi-deep stop) while they came tumbling down. I flashed them (three OW guys in singles, with one light between them!) with my light. They looked at me. I pointed to my light, and the (dark) cave beyond. I then pointed at my two backup lights. Then, to make the point a bit more strongly, I removed my long hose and intentionally freeflowed it, placing the backup in my mouth. Looked them, and gave them a shrug - as in "got all this?"

They turned around.

On the surface they asked me why I did all that and what I meant - they had turned but didn't quite understand the why. I took the time to explain the purpose of doubles, two independant regs, three sources of light, and the spool clipped off on my belt.

They asked a lot of questions and left understanding WHY it wasn't safe to go in there with what they had.

They had read the sign and deemed it preaching instead of teaching.

How do I know? They told me so.

FWIW, two years ago I stopped a similar group (only two guys though instead of three) going into the hole at Vortex. I did it exactly the same way, with the same effect and had roughly the same conversation on the surface. In both cases the other divers sought me out after I surfaced and initiated the discussion - I didn't have to go "chase anyone down" and challenge their intelligence - or credentials.

There's a lesson in here, if we as a community care to listen to it.

Or we can keep closing off sites through a short-sighted view of policy until we have no caves left to dive.

I'll still have my boat when that happens.

How many of you own one?
11-28-2005 07:08 PM
flyczek

John, great suggestion, I bet he would have given me a card if he was still around after we surfaced. Like I said, I don't know the people and I am making a broad assumption that he is an instructor and they were OW students. My dive buddy tells me that she thinks they were actually certified OW divers. My speculation was based purely on how they were acting and the bits on conversation I overheard. Much of my diving lately has been in the DM role for OW students and that's just how they struck me.

As far as "doing something", I just would hate to see someone hurt. I certainly don't intend to come across as an alarmist. That rope itself is a hazard in my opinion. It creates a nuisance (or possibly a danger) to trained divers at the site and worse yet, it invites the untrained to venture in. The last thing I want to see happen is access restricted or dynamite used at the site again. I applaud Walton county for their open policy.

Perhaps what I can take from this is a lesson from Genesis. The next time I see someone acting in this way I will take time out from what I am doing and offer some advice. As a new cave diver I don't exactley feel like a subject matter expert, but I suppose the worse that would happen is that they blow me off.

If someone can PM me on how to insert pics I'll put in two that show the rope in relation to the sign and to a diver entering the cavern. Thanks!
11-28-2005 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D

Im shaking in my neon green fins.
11-28-2005 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyczek

If someone can PM me on how to insert pics I'll put in two that show the rope in relation to the sign and to a diver entering the cavern. Thanks!

Get the URL to the pic and use the IMG button above.
11-28-2005 08:23 PM

Inserting Pictures

Here's the instructions to insert photos (posted to also help others):
http://cavediver.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1571

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyczek

If someone can PM me on how to insert pics I'll put in two that show the rope in relation to the sign and to a diver entering the cavern. Thanks!
11-28-2005 08:53 PM
flyczek

photos

Thanks for the help with posting images. It took a few attempts but I think I got it right. Shutter speed is a little slow in the images but I think it provides good demonstration of the great flow.

Here is the rope going past the sign

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/...e_and_sign.JPG

and here is my buddy entering, notice the rope flopping loosely about in the flow down to her right.

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/...ison_entry.JPG[/img]
11-28-2005 09:06 PM
Genesis

That's not cool. I would have removed it.

There has long been a rope from the entrance of the lower cavern down to the bottom. That one's ok, even though its not real tight. There's also a riope from the platform to the log, which is also ok - its not real tight either but its out of the way.

This one looks like a menace, especially if you get caught up in it while exiting. That could make for a not-nice cluster......
11-29-2005 06:03 AM
Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D

Im shaking in my neon green fins.

Do the letters QA mean anything to you?
11-29-2005 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D

Im shaking in my neon green fins.

Do the letters QA mean anything to you?

No.
11-29-2005 08:07 AM
Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D

Im shaking in my neon green fins.

Do the letters QA mean anything to you?

No.

well they will.
11-29-2005 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caver95

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

. Maybe it's not so dangerous.

yeah right. see what happens if i hear you take some ows in there. :D

Im shaking in my neon green fins.

Do the letters QA mean anything to you?

No.

well they will.

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/...l-whatever.jpg
11-30-2005 10:54 AM
Caver95

http://cavediver.net/photopost/data/...l-whatever.jpg

you probably like Cold Play too.