Where have all the albino crayfish gone?

It seems to me that there are less and less albino crayfish in the main caves. I have had many dives in Ginnie where I haven't seen one. Even in P3 where they usually are plentiful I don't recall seeing many. On the other hand, I've been diving some less trafficked caves and the crayfish are everywhere. Some of them are pretty big even.

Could it be that all the cave traffic and lights are driving them into the furthest reaches of the cave where people don't go or is our presence detrimental to them. Maybe the recent flooding and high water levels have something to do with it? I've only been cave diving for three years but I have noticed a decline in the frequency of sightings.

Has anyone else noticed this? I'm just curious.

They come and go

I have seen plenty of cave adapted fauna in Ginnie in the last two months. Not on the maine line so much but in the smaller less visited places. Within the first 1000 to 2000 feet. Crayfish, Isopods and lots of Amphipods. Something I learned from Kelly Jessop is how to look for the smaller fauna. You gotta go slow but more important its about refocusing your eyes on the small white specks and suddenly seeing the little legs moving. I don't think a dive goes by anymore, anywhere that I don't see something. I think it's the greatest thing I learned in cavediving. How to look at the life.

The NFSA, specifically Kelly Jessop and Mike Stein, are doing systematic fauna counts at Peacock and other sites. I have had the pleasure to analyze the Peacock data statistically. We have presented preliminary results to Suwannee district river water managment and will have an extensive presentation at the advanced skills workshop in August.

We have proved statistically that after a floud, which is the case currently, there is a decline of crayfish and amphipods. However, their numbers are fully recovered after a certain period of time and they come back to the same range. There is no proven correlation with divers presence and the numbers of crayfish.

Come to the workshop at Peacock on August 23 if you would like to find out more.:)

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

If you cannot make the workshop, we will have a publication in an electronic journal soon. We will post this as soon as it is out.

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Originally Posted by TracyN

It seems to me that there are less and less albino crayfish in the main caves. I have had many dives in Ginnie where I haven't seen one. Even in P3 where they usually are plentiful I don't recall seeing many. On the other hand, I've been diving some less trafficked caves and the crayfish are everywhere. Some of them are pretty big even.

Could it be that all the cave traffic and lights are driving them into the furthest reaches of the cave where people don't go or is our presence detrimental to them. Maybe the recent flooding and high water levels have something to do with it? I've only been cave diving for three years but I have noticed a decline in the frequency of sightings.

Has anyone else noticed this? I'm just curious.

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Many species are flow adverse,and with higher flows lately,you won't see them about. After a flood our data shows there are less species initially,and there is a gradual rebound of population densities in approx. 6 months. A question to be answered is where do to all the troglobitic species go during a flood,because we see the see them return after a few months,and we know their life cycle is longer than that.

Xenia brought up a good point. The Advanced Skills Workshop the NFSA is hosting August 23rd will present some of this information. Free to members and includes free lunch/park admission. Bring your questions.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

Many species are flow adverse,and with higher flows lately,you won't see them about. After a flood our data shows there are less species initially,and there is a gradual rebound of population densities in approx. 6 months. A question to be answered is where do to all the troglobitic species go during a flood,because we see them return after a few months,and we know their life cycle is longer than that.

Xenia brought up a good point. The Advanced Skills Workshop the NFSA is hosting August 23rd will present some of this information. Free to members and includes free lunch/park admission. Bring your questions.

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Opps,too late to hit edit button, so I corrected this

A side note: people say that all cave exploration is done,are very narrow in their focus. The data that has been captured at Peacock over the last 10 years reveal things about this system that have never been understood. Exploration opportunities abound if you expand your horizon.

Edit: I fixed your typo.
FW

How does one go about volunteering to help with fauna counts and other studies? I would love to help out.

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Originally Posted by TracyN

How does one go about volunteering to help with fauna counts and other studies? I would love to help out.

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Anybody who has an interest please PM me

Someone been making low cave country boil again?!?

They're all in P3. We dove there today and couldn't find a bend in the cave without crawfish.

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Originally Posted by TracyN

How does one go about volunteering to help with fauna counts and other studies? I would love to help out.

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Michael Angelo has a training program for volunteers. He's MA on this forum, and I suspect will be contacting you soon or posting here.

skip

Skip is correct. As NACD Conservation Chair we began doing counts in springs in Mo. In addition we will be working with WET by helping them setup a count in Jacob's Well. Now that I am moved to Florida I am planning on adding counts in some of the non state park springs both in the High Springs Area and Marianna area. What I have done is organize teams of divers local to a system. That team runs the counts monthly and sends the report back to me where I add it to a database. We have just begun working with Jason Gulley adding water monitoring instramentation It is my hope that by adding differant teams in differant states we can build a national database of underwater cave fauna. As with Kelley anyone interested in volunteering please pm me

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Originally Posted by TracyN

It seems to me that there are less and less albino crayfish in the main caves.

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I bet there are a ton in Bonnet. Kelly?

Actually. I don't think there are any crayfish left in Bonnet. I bet the gator ate them all.

? I am wondering if with the new tecnology that we have in lights, if they can sense the light sooner and are there for able to hide before we are able to see them unlike when the lights were not as bright.

Just a though.

SLIM

Great MA. Sign me up. :-)

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Originally Posted by SLIM

? I am wondering if with the new tecnology that we have in lights, if they can sense the light sooner and are there for able to hide before we are able to see them unlike when the lights were not as bright.

Just a though.

SLIM

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That may be true, but I believe it's more about learning to see the fauna. Most of the cave adapted fauna are very small and some times hard to distinguish them from backgroung particles (cave snow), so it becomes about refocusing your eyes to see the tiny stuff. It's hard to explain or understand how to do it till you get it right. Kinda like learning to hit a baseball as a kid. At first that ball is a white streak. Dad can say "keep your eye on the ball", but your still swinging at a white streak. One day you refocus your eyes and see a white globe coming at you and you make contact, a small euricka moment. Once you begin to learn how to see them it opens a whole new world. At least it did for me.

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Originally Posted by Walter Pickel

I bet there are a ton in Bonnet. Kelly?

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Fewer than you'd think,and this probably a function of water quality,because Bonnet is more bad than good due to tannic river vents.

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Originally Posted by SLIM

? I am wondering if with the new tecnology that we have in lights, if they can sense the light sooner and are there for able to hide before we are able to see them unlike when the lights were not as bright.

Just a though.

SLIM

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There is only one troglobitic crayfish that is noted to be light responsive,Procambarus lucifugus. For the most part species have more tactile response,which is important to elude predators

The fauna counts at Peacock started with the thesis statement,"there doesn't seem to be as many species as there used to be." Since there was no previous documented information to support this,that was the goal. Where I have been cave diving 20 years,and did my share of exploration,doing long dives,with long decos it became more than a burden to an aging physiology. Doing fauna counts has opened a world of exploration in realms not imagined,and this has unlocked secrets of these systems. Observing these species for 10 years,has permenantly altered my perception of cave diving,such that people get excited by that big room,I get excited that I saw a crangonyx grandimanus somewhere.

Some notes to pass along
1) Observing species is great; observing species over a distance,documenting it,and then replicating it,is better
2) It is hard work,not a casual cave dive. You have to swim 100' counting and documenting.
3) Important to be the first one in the system,so set the alarm clock for early arrival
4) Don't get frustrated, it takes doing repetitively before you get usable data
5) Data is the most reliable if the same people do that system repetitively
6) Need to have great antisilting technique-can't count what you can't see
7) Don't need a light cannon. I used a 10w HID with 13 degree bulb. Less light is better because you keep a black background with species that are white. Your eyes dilate well to subdued lighting
8) Learn the species that you are counting,how to see them,and where they can be found.

The one suggestion I have is change how you look at the cave inorder to see the cave come to life. Where we tend to use focused beams of light and look at where the light contacts,try using very diffuse beam,and look into the water column in front of you,not the wall.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

The fauna counts at Peacock started with the thesis statement,"there doesn't seem to be as many species as there used to be." Since there was no previous documented information to support this,that was the goal. Where I have been cave diving 20 years,and did my share of exploration,doing long dives,with long decos it became more than a burden to an aging physiology. Doing fauna counts has opened a world of exploration in realms not imagined,and this has unlocked secrets of these systems. Observing these species for 10 years,has permenantly altered my perception of cave diving,such that people get excited by that big room,I get excited that I saw a crangonyx grandimanus somewhere.

Some notes to pass along
1) Observing species is great; observing species over a distance,documenting it,and then replicating it,is better
2) It is hard work,not a casual cave dive. You have to swim 100' counting and documenting.
3) Important to be the first one in the system,so set the alarm clock for early arrival
4) Don't get frustrated, it takes doing repetitively before you get usable data
5) Data is the most reliable if the same people do that system repetitively
6) Need to have great antisilting technique-can't count what you can't see
7) Don't need a light cannon. I used a 10w HID with 13 degree bulb. Less light is better because you keep a black background with species that are white. Your eyes dilate well to subdued lighting
8) Learn the species that you are counting,how to see them,and where they can be found.

The one suggestion I have is change how you look at the cave inorder to see the cave come to life. Where we tend to use focused beams of light and look at where the light contacts,try using very diffuse beam,and look into the water column in front of you,not the wall.

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Thank you Kelly. Not only for this post. (Hope you don't mind if I steel it). And because you've opened new worlds for me every time I've helped you and as a mentor whether you knew it or not.

Kelly, I was just diving Peacock this past week and I saw 2 crayfish bodies (or possibly molt if they do that). Given how long they live is this normal or somehow due to the floods?

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Originally Posted by scottj

Kelly, I was just diving Peacock this past week and I saw 2 crayfish bodies (or possibly molt if they do that). Given how long they live is this normal or somehow due to the floods?

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Good question. When we did the fauna count the weekend the park opened,over the course of a 4800ft swim,I didn't see any dead crayfish. This is passing areas that showed dissolved oxygen as high as 22% and as low as 10%-which is within survival range of crayfish. I have done post flood swims in the past where there were large numbers of dead species,and that you'd suspect very low DO,or another contaminant. We were recently re-funded for our grant,and purchased another hydrolab. The goal is long term placement,which would help answer questions regarding the changes to water quality during a flood,or periods of time between fauna counts.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

The fauna counts at Peacock started with the thesis statement,"there doesn't seem to be as many species as there used to be.".....,I get excited that I saw a crangonyx grandimanus somewhere......


The one suggestion I have is change how you look at the cave inorder to see the cave come to life. Where we tend to use focused beams of light and look at where the light contacts,try using very diffuse beam,and look into the water column in front of you,not the wall.

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Okay Show of hands.... Who else looked that up? I'm pretty sure I've seen those but did not know they are on the endangered species list. I attended Michael Angelo's training and intend to participate in the fauna counts up north at some point. I will be down next month and maybe I can tag along with someone if there's anything going on with Fauna counts and stuff just to see how it works in real actual practice.

Do our caves have freshwater shrimp as well? When I was doing my trimix training in Eagle's Nest I saw a crustacean that looked very much like a shrimp. It was semi transparent and looked like something you would see in the ocean. It didn't have any claws and had big eyes that shine when light hits them. Also when I was doing a dive in meeting house I saw this albino fish. It looked like the regular fish but it was white and transparent as if it were starting to adapt to the dark environment. The first one I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by T. Bix

Okay Show of hands.... Who else looked that up? I'm pretty sure I've seen those but did not know they are on the endangered species list. I attended Michael Angelo's training and intend to participate in the fauna counts up north at some point. I will be down next month and maybe I can tag along with someone if there's anything going on with Fauna counts and stuff just to see how it works in real actual practice.

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Crangonyx grandimanus, also known as "really big ass amphipod" :-)