Has anyone dived JB since the storm?
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Has anyone dived JB since the storm?
Not me. I got a dive in on Monday, then the bottom fell out. I'd be interested to hear too. The soonest I can get back in there is Friday.
Today the vis was about 20-30 foot and the flow is the highest I have seen yet.
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Thanks, I think :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by stabservo
The ride out is.....Thrilling!
What you are saying is on the ride out it might be wise to wear a hard hat.
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Or stay off the trigger :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by SlowDiver
I went this afternoon. The conditions are.......sporting.
Back to the old days when 3rds got you to the first T. I did a dive there a couple weekends ago,and while doing deco I watch two people on scooters get blown out of the cavern 3 times. Many people haven't seen real high flow there,and they plowed right down the center of the passage in the highest part of the flow,with much difficulty. When the cave is pumping,even DPV divers need to read the cave,and look for low flow spots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M
In mid April, before the recent storm, the flow was so high that if you ran a Viper on speed 2, you weren't going much faster than swimming speed, between the 2nd breakdown, and the 1st T. If it is flowing faster now, a Viper would probably not be moving at all on speed 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
\Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Hmmm...remember Madison (when owned by the Bruics and scootering was allowed) when the flow was so strong that my Tekna was on 9,and I was pulling..pulling...pulling to move. I gave up before Martz. I learned an important lesson that day,don't stop the dive in current that strong and let off the trigger. I had Tekna imprinted in my forehead.
:rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Yea, I remember those days.
It is conditions like this that will really develop a divers skill. Call me crazy, but I drive two hours one way, sometimes once a week, to brave this stuff.
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You are right. It really teaches you how to read a cave.Quote:
Originally Posted by stabservo
Would one of you guys who read the cave well enough to not pull on the cave the whole way in this type of flow be kind enough to post a video of how you're doing this?
This falls into the category as " Do as I Say and not Do as I Do".
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Easy, use a scooter :rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by jj1987
There are some of us that don't scooter, just like some that don't do Face Book.
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I agree it would be good to get some pointers and guidance on how to read caves ideally with pictures for people like me.
Thanks
Read cave = ask someone the best route to go.
Congrats, now you too can "read" a cave and tell other people how to "read" it.
That could work in theory, unfortunately many people will provide useless information.Quote:
Originally Posted by PfcAJ
Some folks will even enjoy to see someone else wearing himself out in the flow, sad as that is.
Having said that, the best method is to experiment using different approaches and discover the little tricks yourself.
It's actually pretty simple and not rocket science.
Prominent features ahead of you will protect you from the flow. Observe the path the water takes around curved or angled passages.
Once you try different approaches, you'll quickly improve and will eventually master it.
You make a good point. It is hard to describe where to be,but from trail and error and experience. There are large pillars-swim in the shadow. There are areas where the wall is concave,move to that area,and the eddy will help move you. Where the wall is convex,stay in the shadow,they once over the apex,duck back to the wall. Swim low to break down piles,then work your way up. When JB is high flow,then you can't help but pull and pull (note not pull and glide),but look for areas that have been previously touched,then swim when you hit the low flow areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
That is great advice Kelly, thank you!
The best advice that I can give is look at the cave as a river. Think about where the shallows and deep parts are on a river and how they are formed. It's by the current and no different in a cave as the flow winds down the passage. Now swimming close to any formation, side, ceiling or floor the flow will be less due to the resistance. I still remember years ago helping Mike Bruic when his family owned Madison. It was pumping hard that day and the two students who were leading the dive were swimming in the middle of the flow and pull on a rock when they could.
When the dive was over I remember Mike in his own wild man way of talking ask the question. "Why did you stay in the main flow and racking up unnecessary deco". "Why do you think we where close to the ceiling, for our health." I felt sorry for the students since Mike lived at Madison and could dive it every day. Then I met the former students later at Ginnie and they mention that learning to read a cave was one of the best parts of his class. And yes they did pass.
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Take a look at this:
http://www.appliedmc.com/images/e-zi...ough-elbow.jpg
Velocity is greatest on the inside of a bend. IIRC, the opposite of a river. In a river, the flow slows on the inside of a bend, depositing particles with lower settling velocities. Flow is highest on the outside of the bends.
Sometimes the flow is obvious when it cleans the floor.
I don't remember any discussion of reading the cave in class. Flow wasn't high enough that we cared to ask either.
That graph of yours is very nice and shows exactly where to cut from the inside over to the outside and back in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Actually, other than the more obvious places mentioned already for hiding from the flow, I learned more about the flow in the cave by scooter diving with a buddy with a well matched scooter. Highest flow may have been in the middle and top, bottom, left, and right are all relatively reduced but how to compare all of them especially if the flow varies day to day? It becomes obvious very quickly with scooters.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
and Forrest, last Friday's flow was up from when I saw you in April. I didn't go back but I had heard there was a boil at Twin and driving by on the boat today it was not there so maybe the flow is coming back down a little.
Greenwood_60 that is a interesting chart. Explains the flow out of the Lips at Ginnie. Don't know if reading a cave was a required part of the cave class are not, been too many years, but I do remember when cave mapping was taken out of the standards.
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What was the viz like? Could you see to the bottom of the hole?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M
I didn't dive anywhere today, just out boating. From the surface at Twin the water was clear, you could see all of the entrance depression just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Yes, that is what I was asking about. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M
Hey Greenwood_60, fantastic graph, thanks for posting. Can you explain the difference between the 3 cross sectional areas?
No - a scooter damages the caves. The State Park officials say so, so it must be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
Or give us a higher resolution image. Be careful here, this is for a drain pipe, the flow is going vertical, then horizontal. The cross sections would have to be turned 90 degrees for a cave.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgif99
I think this is an over simplification,but we are partially to blame. Scooters in the hands of a trained and responsible individual can promote conservation,because you don't have to have physical contact with the cave. If the person also drops speed down,or even gets off the trigger in sensitive areas based on the topography of the cave,then this shows responsible usage. There was a time the state was seeing scooter damage in some caves and hearing complaints. Peacock for example,had no scootering in the management plan over 15 years ago,before anybody ever enforced it,but there were some problems that were occurring leading up to it. At that time you'd have scootering from OG to Challange with someone staying on the trigger 100% of the time,and you know how there are so many smaller areas in this passage,so it led to silt outs (back when OG used to have silt) and damage to the floor. Even had people scootering Nicholson tunnel and Waterhole tunnel,which doesn't reflect upon responsible scootering-so with most things, the few mess it up for the many. But to return to the previous comment about how we are partially to blame. Read this forum,and see the scooter trench comments at Jackson Blue,plus the other negatives that we ourselves raise. I have spoken to many state officials about the benefits of DPV for cave conservation,but when they themselves point to comments we make on our own forums,then I really don't have a leg to stand on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
It's not my image, just something I pulled up on google. A quick drag and drop on to images.google.com turned up the entire PDF, on flow through large pipes. http://www.jdfandassociates.com/Tech...ipe%20flow.pdf
Hello mgif99. I am not Greenwood, but I am fluent in CFD techniques. The difference in the 3 cross sectional areas are the distances from the bend radius. 1D, 5D and 50D refer to how many pipe diameters down stream that cross section represents. 1D would represent the direct effects of the cross sectional flow due to the bend, 5D would be the tail end of the effects of the bend, and 50D would be sufficently down stream to have the flow represent normal straight pipe.
Thanks for the explanation. Do you know if the orientation of the bend matters significantly in this case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kthompso
Yes, it does. You would need to turn the cross sections 90 degrees for a horizontal bend (like in a cave). The lower flow is always on the inside of the bend. IE, if the cave is turning left in front of you, the lower flow will be on the left wall. Once you get to the bend, cross quickly to the right, to get out of the stronger flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Since caves are never as simple as pipes, and do some twisting, like the pipes in the .pdf, you can get some strange flow patterns sometimes. In general, the center of a passage will be worse than the walls, floor, or ceiling.
I assumed the flow characteristics were relative to the bend. What I meant was if that pipe is a z to x or y bend, and we're talking about x to y bend in the caves, is there a significant difference in the relative characteristics. I don't imagine it does, since it's basically uniform in density and compressibility. But I really have no idea.
The flow in an otherwise straight passage, will tend towards the more regular surface. Like the flat floor of some of the early big areas in JB.
To answer your question Greenwood, the orientation does matter in this case due to the effects of gravity. The pipe orientation will change where the flow is the strongest.
Cave flow is more likened to river flows than pipe flows due to the surface roughness. The pipe flows are an excellent visualization of how water behaves in smooth pipe, but caves are rough and have more eddies.
Jason, that assumption is correct. Gravity may have some correlation to the strength of the correlation of the flow, but it will be rather minimal. Either way, it's not THAT precise as that's a circular cross-section and there's no way we can get anything that precise in our diving....it's the general principal that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
There is more to fluid dynamics than a simple velocity profile. While the graphic shows slower flow on the outside of the curve, it does not show force or direction vectors. It may be slower, but it would also pin you to the wall. Additionally, this flow is turbulent, instead of the laminar flow you would be more likely see in caves. With laminar flow, the speed at the wall is zero, due to friction and gradually increases until it reaches a peak at the center of the conduit. By staying closer to the walls and out of the center of the passage, you will be out of the faster flow. For example, on the way into JB when the passage is a straight, wide ellipse with the line up the center, you would be much better off as far left or right as you can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
Or you can ask Edd if you can borrow the Genesis 600 I sent him to play with and completely disregard the flow. :-D
Is that a tester for him or a demo unit and he's going to be a dealer. It'd be nice to have easy access to your scooters and the ss models at the same place. I haven't gotten my cert yet but a big factor in when and where I get it is easy access to more than one scooter type or model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Nellis
Whew, I thought you were going to launch into a boundary layer discussion:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Nellis
gasdiver: That kinda WAS a boundary layer discussion :D
About the scooter, I'm curious about Edd's genesis as well. I'll have to call him later today about it.
Back on the topic of flow, I wonder what boundary layer thickness is common in water. I'm an Aerospace Engineer (Aerodynamcs being my main focus)....but I'm unfamiliar with certain performance characteristics of Reynolds numbers found in water flow (despite having taken a course specifically about natural fluid flows). So, my question is this, what kind of boundary layer thickness are we actually looking at the Re values found in the caves we dive. In air, on planes, BL thickness is nearly negligible.
I sent Edd a scooter to try for a while to see if he wants to carry them in the shop. It won't be there too much longer, since it is my wife's and she'll want it back before our next trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by rddvet
As for boundary layer, the Reynolds number is high (10^7 = turbulent), but one of the factors in pipe/river flow is surface roughness that disrupts linear flow. The channel resistance (from the Manning and Chezy formulas) drops the Equivalent Reynolds number down to the laminar range 10^2. Just think of it like a river, the water along the shore will always move slower than the very center.
I got all of that, I'm just wondering what the difference in velocity between the center and edges is (say 1ft from the edges). I'm also wondering what the velocity profile looks like in a "straight" area.
This would be an incredible interesting experiment to run, I think. It wouldn't be hard to do.....just release some dye in a line into the flow. I'll start sketching some designs tonight and seeing how feasible this is for a cave.
I'd love to see video of dye released at different points in different passages.
... or get a mechanical anemometer or cheap electronic anemometer and waterproof it.
Karst Environmental did that. You could contact Pete Butt, and ask what he came up with. He was mostly doing it on entrances, to better estimate the outflow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Nellis
As interesting as the flow analysis is, I would love to read more condition reports :-)
As interesting as the flow analysis is, I would love to read more condition reports
Me as well.
As interesting as the flow analysis is, I would love to read more conditions reports.
I'm not too worried about it, strong flow doesn't bother me the slightest bit. :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by FW
It was flowing pretty good when we were there at the end of March. It gave me something to do on deco, holding position in the middle of the flow while the fish swam around me.
:D Sorry to derail the thread with a conditions report, but I dived JB yesterday. :D
The underwater lawn mower was going and that was cool to see in action! The middle of the basin looks like it got haircut from underwater. There was lots of floating grass clippings, but I'm sure they'll work their way out. I imagine this is in preparation for swimmers. Of course, you REALLY don't wanna get shot out of the cave into that thing :) The parks guys had a spotter standing at the diving board keeping an eye on things. I was impressed and felt like they had the safety aspect covered well.
The flow is ROCKIN'! If you're swimming and can't resist the urge to do a goal-oriented dive (I MUST reach point xxxxx), forget it. CO2 will not be your friend.
I was just looking to get wet and have rocks over my head. I had a BLAST! The viz is AWESOME for any number of caves around the world. It is NOT JB's normal air-clear viz, though. It's all about perspective, baby! From the start of the gold line, the entrance is fully visible, but it looks similar to seeing through a halocline, instead of the sharp, well-defined image we typically see there.
Since I wasn't in any hurry to *go* anywhere, I tucked into every little space I found, experimenting and feeling with the levels of flow in different places. It was fun when I miscalculated a couple of times and my fins caught the flow. It felt like I'd been hooked by a moving boat!
Sitting in the cavern area, near the mouth, it was like watching an underwater version of a sand storm. I really wished I'd had my camera. The sand would whip up into tornadoes all up and down the mouth and out into the basin. It was a beautiful and awe-inspiring sight!
Great dive!
Of course, when my day started out with our two female donkeys humping outside the kitchen window, I just knew it was gonna be a GREAT day! Happy Hump Day INDEED! Of course, the fact that I got to take home OFG's cootie laden underwear made this a day that could never be topped! Mmmmmm, humping donkeys and boy cooties....Wednesdays ROCK!!
Go be happy, y'all!
Shirley
Thanks for the report!Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
I live to serve, kind sir! And eat bacon. Of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by FW
...but not to serve bacon :rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Wow, it sounds like it's higher than the last time I was there. Vis was bad last time, as well. I had to turn my new light down to low to reduce the backscatter.
Shirley, your point about goal-oriented dives should be taken very seriously. I know it's always a bad idea to get a goal in mind, but this flow is making it pretty dangerous on top of the tunnel vision.
I think I saw a stage show about this in Juarez about 30 years ago. The opening act was "Juicy Lucy and her trained Gila monster".Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
Unfamiliar with the underwater lawn mower. what is this?
I wish I had pictures. It's a boat with what looked like a paddle wheel of sorts on the back that mowed the submerged grass beds in the basin. I'll watch for it and grab some photos next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bailey
"Watch for it" is the correct phrase. It tends to ignore the "rules of the road" for boating,and if your in a small craft,it won't see you,or will ignore you.Quote:
Originally Posted by sskasser
They need to take that thing up the entire length of the millpond.
We dove JB last night. Here's my impression: The flow is up tremendously as all have stated. We were on UV18's, SM with O2 and a stage. My prop is set at 8.5 and I have the venom electronics package. I was on speed 3 almost the whole dive.
Getting in wasn't too bad, we weren't moving real fast but made decent headway. I stayed low and faired okay there. Along the way to the chimney, there are plenty of things to hide behind so that was okay. Dropping down the chimney, you could really feel it and at the bottom it was really moving. Coming off the trigger got me moving backwards. Through the breakdowns the flow is particularly strong and will impede progress significantly. Once past the second breakdown, stayed far left and that was nearly no flow. However, when i got near the 1st tee, and had to move back out into flow, I was blown sideways. It's really hauling there. 2nd tee wasn't bad, as was everything else until the Rabbit Hole. There are plenty of eddies and hiding spots to make progress reasonable. The Rabbit Hole is a different story. It is SCREAMING through there! On prop near nine and full throttle, I still had to pull to get through! Also, in the trash room there is a section just past the stop light where it seems 2 or 3 currents are converging and creates an interesting vortex to contend with. From there, it's about the same as earlier described to our jump off at Sweet Passage. We left stages and scooters on Gold and swam a while in there. Still decent flow, but nothing like the main tunnel.
The return was a hoot! The rabbit hole was a particular blast, as it literally ejected us! During the long runs, I was full throttle and felt like I was going 30 mph! I know I wasn't but it sure felt like it.
Be careful at the chimney going up as the flow wants to help you maybe a bit more than you'd like.
All in all, a great dive. Tougher than we are used to but easily doable. However, those of you not on scooters, my hat's off to you! That must be quite a work out and lots of skin gone from the finger tips.
One final note: viz stayed the same throughout our dive at about 40'.
Sent from behind a pint of Guinness.
This thing you speak of I have never heard of it nor have I ever seen it, but larger vessals have the right of way over smaller ones. And if to vessals are of the same size the slower and less manuverable one has the right of way. A larger vessal has even more of a right of way when in areas that restrict it's ability to manuver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Attachment 10806
Something like this for hyacinth management? I've never been to the mill pond...
Wow, the viz was that "bad" even back in the Sweet Passage? Are the two eels still in the rabbit hole or have they been ejected too? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bil
I didn't see any eels, but on the way in I was head down and looking for hand holds and on the way out, I was screaming through and trying to avoid head to rock wall contacts. There could have been an alligator in there and I wouldn't have noticed it!Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
You are probably right,although I thought vessels not under power,like a canoe/kayak, had some right of way. Either way, I found the operator on one particular weekend I was there didn't really seem to care,and it was obviously my obligation to avoid collision,even if he changed course left and right in the course of several seconds. Just take caution when they are present,they have a job to do,and them mean to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by next gen
All bets are off in Lower Alabama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
According to the coast guard the ability to manuver and speed are the same thing. If you were in a 10ft dinghy on plane you have the right of way over no one, unless your engine fails. Then you are required to tilt it back to indicate that it's broke. The law is a little odd concerning sailboats such as if a sailboat has it's headsail and mainsail up but it's engine is running it's as my dad would say, "a overweight, underpowered motorboat with a air draft and water draft problem." It gets real interesting when the sailboat is undersail only, it then has the right of way everywere execpt in a shipping channel where there is a freighter, then the freighter has the right of way. When not dealing with sailboats I have found that whoever is more capable of getting out of the other's way does not have the right of way along with size works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop
Just an update on conditions in Jackson Blue. Viz was 40 to 50ft, flow hasn't changed, but I let Edd know that the 500ft line arrow is gone. Also, for any of you that enjoy the binnie tunnel the flow in there is very strong.
I have found out that a nuclear sub has the right of way no matter what. The Coast Guard will order you out of the channel and run up on the bank then hold you with a machine gun pointed at you. Definitely was not a fun time. As far as the guys cutting hydrilla is it really worth getting run over to just prove you are right? Sort of like crossing the street. I don't just walk across the street when the signal is given. You might have the right of way but I think I will be the loser when some car runs me over.
Of course there is common sense, and it should be used everywhere. I didn't know about submarines concerning right of way. Where did you see a submarine?
I was working up in Stamford, Ct. at the time and we were leaving out of New London, Ct. on a 50' plus Hatteras to go dive the Uboat up there off Block Island. The Electric Boat Company has a plant there and the Coast Guard was escorting a sub in. The first boat told us to pull over and we did as instructed. The next Coast Guard vessel came up to us and kept ordering us closer to the shore. The poor captain about had the boat beached but they didn't seem to think we were far enough away. There was no where to go and we were literally feet from the rocks. The Coast Guard kept telling us to stay away and there was nowhere to go. They got within 50 yards or so of us and kept a machine gun that was mounted on the bow pointed directly at us. The channel is not the widest there but when you are against the bank there is no where else to go. We were probably within 100 yards or so of the sub as it went by. Other than knowing ahead of time that a sub was coming and adjusting our time accordingly I honestly don't know what else the captain could have done. Definitely someone on a power trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by next gen
US SHIP: Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
CANADIAN REPLY: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.
US SHIP: This is the Captain of the US Navy Ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.
CANADIAN REPLY: No, I say again, divert YOUR course!
US SHIP: THIS IS THE USS MISSOURI. WE ARE A LARGE BATTLESHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW OR WE WILL TAKE APPROPRIATE AND DRASTIC MEASURES!!!!
CANADIAN REPLY: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
Shirley.....that sounds oddly familiar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeZ-RFYlMao
The USS Montana commercial reminded me of this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MUsVcYhERY
Brian
:smt081
:rollguyQuote:
Originally Posted by victorzamora
Here lies the body of Irving McRay,Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafan
Who died defending his right-of-way.
He was right, dead right, all along,
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
-Unknown
Since the mill pond is not a "navigable waterway" the international and inland navigation regs don't apply. Even if they did apply, the catch-all regulation is Rule 2(b), every vessel must do anything necessary to avoid a collision, including disregarding the regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by next gen
It falls to the state regulations or physics and most folks understand physics better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Nellis
How sure about that are you?
I like that poem. I think it makes my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
Since most points of law can be settled by WWMBD (what would Mike Brady do?) I remind everyone of the episode when, asked who has the right-of-way when two boats meet, Jan replies, "The biggest boat."
Dove JB yesterday. Vis was 70' and with the Gavin on 9, barely made headway.
Second dive at Hole in the Wall. 40' max vis. Only swam a little upstream and then a little downstream.
Does anyone have any condition updates?
Most of the cave is blowing as hard as the lips at Ginnie, and not a lot of places to hide. Some parts including near a breakdown restriction and the entrance to the cave are blowing like the ear entrance at Ginnie or worse. Water clarity is great - a little hazy tho. Scooter pretty much required gear. I would think you could make it a couple hundred feet in OC doubles unless your cave reading skills and swimming power are ninja like.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hat Jef
My ninja cave reading skills are more like Kung fu panda ninja skills... I would literally get my ass kicked with the only positive being that I would enjoy it.
New goal: ninja cave diver.
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I am a real ninja(hold a first degree black belt) and I dive caves so I guess that makes me a ninja cave diver. However I am far from mastering the secret ninja cave diving techniques for swimming in high flow. :-)
I'm a Fluid Dynamicist by trade, passion, and training. I love everything there is to know about fluids moving. I LOVE using my nerdy obsessions in my hobbies. Therefore, I've come up with a convenient solution on how to read the flow in JB's current conditions (pun very much intended). The following is a graphic of how to make the flow bearable. You'll still need some effort to get upstream, but it really helps when it comes to reading the cave.
http://www.blackbeltdivers.eu/media/...m/a/magnus.jpg
On a more serious note, I was there yesterday. Twenty-seven minutes to the Source Nouveau jump (p3,300'), and fourteen minutes back to the chimney. SS UV-26 with new batteries on prop setting 7.
Vis was easily 80'.
So Sludge, you trade your BINFORD in for a SS, ROFLMAO
SLIM
That's a pretty sweet pace Russell, considering the flow!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slüdge
So either you secretly switched to sidemount recently, or the flow is down by quite a bit? :-)
The second option is more likely. :) Sorry Russell.Quote:
Originally Posted by nakatomi
Is it approaching anything like swim able yet? We are just finishing up our trip and would like to hit the mill pond on the way back north.
Swimmable is relative. I willingly did a swim dive there twice last week, but I didn't see anyone else around. There is strong flow and I don't expect it to diminish anytime soon. These are normal conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Bix
The vis has returned to more normal conditions in all the caves on the millpond. If you don't want to swim with JB flow, you can dive Hole or Twin instead. Twin has light outflow that is hardly noticeable on the swim in and Hole has flow at the entrance restriction, but it is not noticeable anywhere else.
Anyone have a recent report for Twin or Hole?
Thanks.
From what I heard (via John Weston of CA) both are back to normal in terms of flow and visbility.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy