A gift for Edd and Mill Pond divers

Just got finished with a great weekend of diving ending at Twin in Mill pond. As I was deco-ing and splashing my hand in the air pocket at the cavern I was thinking of the girl Edd pulled from that air pocket some time back. I was also thinking of the rickety steps leading from the dock down to the water that seemed to be just a misstep away from breaking a divers leg. Then it hit me, why don't we get together as a cave diving community and fund the rebuilding of the steps and docks leading into Hole and Twin? It could be a selfish gift to Edd for all the rescues and recoveries he has done. So for the record put me down for $500, money well spent to avoid a fall and to keep enjoying the access. If everyone else who dives these caves chipped in the cost of fills, rentals, JB pass for one day we could have some great steps and docks built that would last decades...

I also would like be willing to donate. The crew that put the anti-slip metal plates on the steps at Blue Spring in Madison had a real neat setup with a air powered drill and driver which worked well underwater. Getting the ones involved that have build steps in the past and there is no reason why a really nice set of safe steps could not be built.


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Funny this should be a topic of discussion here on cdf. There has been ongoing plans to have a new dock built at Hole for some time now. Jon Dotter who is a recent new resident of the mill pond has done some negotiating with Lowes here in Marianna and has worked out a generous deal on building material with the management at Lowes. Unfortunatly they are not willing to give us everything for free so we have been looking at doing some fund raising to make this project reality. I'm certain that any donations of time or dollars would be greatly appreciated and help get this project under way. To have new docks at both Twin and Hole would be a huge step in making millpond diving somewhat safer and more enjoyable for all who come. In the planning was to make the dock at Hole about four times the size it is now. I'm sure a call to Edd or the guys at the shop with any ideas of a time frame or funding donations would be a start towards getting this idea become reality. Lets make it happen!

Ed asked me a while back about a generator. I told him that it was no problem to get one. I am in for labor and whatever tools are needed. Just let me know when.

Mbaker is correct. I have been helping out Edd and some others involved in this project. Our plan as of now was to rebuild the dock at Hole in the wall, I can look into more materials if we get enough interest for Twin also. If you are interested in this project please contact Cave Adventurers they will be collecting the money for the project and heading it up. I am just doing some of the leg work to get things moving. I am sure this will help us move forward with the project and when we have a date set for the work to start I will make sure to update this post. I do want to thank all the people helping so far, you can also PM me if you are interested in helping so I can make a list.


Thanks
Jon
(mikes friend who doesn't post)

John & Mike - this is great. I am more than willing to pitch some money in, and depending when the construction is - labor and tools. I have a a few air drills that could be used if we need them, as well as just about anything else.

I just emailed Edd to figure out the logistics of donations and help I will post when I get a reply. Thanks for all the interest.
--Scott

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Originally Posted by scottj

I just emailed Edd to figure out the logistics of donations and help I will post when I get a reply. Thanks for all the interest.
--Scott

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I am standing by for details on how to help $ or possibly manpower if schedule works.

Count me in for $$$


I cannot seem to find the time . . . :cry:

Edd is working on the logistics of how to donate to this. Sounds like the timing is great he had hoped to get materials free from Lowes but they backed out on him. Probably the lawyers heard "cave diving" and freaked :)

I'll see what I can do. I don't have any money but, I might be able to help out.

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Originally Posted by Jax

Count me in for $$$


I cannot seem to find the time . . . :cry:

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Count me in for time.


I cannot seem to find the $$$ . . . :cry:

Count me in!!


What are some items needed?

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Originally Posted by Jax

Count me in for $$$

I cannot seem to find the time . . . :cry:

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Originally Posted by Slüdge

Count me in for time.

I cannot seem to find the $$$ . . . :cry:

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Whoot! You complete me! :rollguy

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Originally Posted by Jax

Whoot! You complete me! :rollguy

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Did he have you at hello?

I have spoken to Edd about this several times. I have arrangements with several companies for materials at discount rates and/or free. I also have generators, compound miter saws, all kinds of under water tools, basically everything needed to build a house there. Let me know what I can do to help. I will make time to come pitch in on the construction. I'm sure the tools can stay with Edd until the project is complete. I also have a large barge we can use for a work surface. Let's get r done!!

I'd be glad to kick in some cash.

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Originally Posted by speleodiver

I have spoken to Edd about this several times. I have arrangements with several companies for materials at discount rates and/or free. I also have generators, compound miter saws, all kinds of under water tools, basically everything needed to build a house there. Let me know what I can do to help. I will make time to come pitch in on the construction. I'm sure the tools can stay with Edd until the project is complete. I also have a large barge we can use for a work surface. Let's get r done!!

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Any thoughts about building with Trex? Will cost more,but longer duration.

Also, the group from Texas that built the steps received donations for the project. Wonder if there are funds left?

+1 for trex. Great stuff.

Trex is great I build my entire deck out of it. However it is quite a bit more flexible than wood so it would need more support than wooden steps especially when we are talking about tank-laden divers. My other concern would be how it would behave fully immersed in water for years since its a wood-fiber/plastic mix. Has anyone used it underwater?

count me for some cash and possibly time. Maybe a raffle prize?

I'd really discourage the use of trex, azek or any other composite decking. While the would hold up great underwater they are all far too flexible and will likely break under a heavy load (such as my fat ass in a set of 108's) Now, you could space your joist and stringers on 12" centers and it would probably be fine......but then you have the additional cost for that material. Personally I see nothing wrong with using 5/4 treated decking for the decks. I have enough 5/4 Ipe deck boards to do just the steps at both Twin and Hole. I'd be glad to donate it but we'd need to figure out a way to get it from VA to FL. Ipe coupled with the stainless all thread rods would make the steps damn near bullet proof.

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Originally Posted by CRomine

. While the would hold up great underwater they are all far too flexible and will likely break under a heavy load (such as my fat ass in a set of 108's) Now, you could space your joist and stringers on 12" centers and it would probably be fine......I see nothing wrong with using 5/4 treated decking for the decks..

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You are right Trex is flexible,and there would need to be significant engineering to make it load worthy,which is what was done with the steps at Emerald. Many agencies have shyed away from putting treated lumbar in submerged areas because of leaching and pollution that occurs.

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Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

You are right Trex is flexible,and there would need to be significant engineering to make it load worthy,which is what was done with the steps at Emerald. Many agencies have shyed away from putting treated lumbar in submerged areas because of leaching and pollution that occurs.

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Yes but if you recall at Emerald, the Trex is supported by treated lumber, so the pollution problem is still there.

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Originally Posted by FW

Yes but if you recall at Emerald, the Trex is supported by treated lumber, so the pollution problem is still there.

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But the treated lumbar is kept to a very minimum and very little is submerged. A lot of thought process went into this.

Bit far for me to come and help, but count me in for a donation.

how many steps will be under water?
I may have a solution.

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Originally Posted by scubadude

how many steps will be under water?
I may have a solution.

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Depends on how deep the pond is, on any given day, but 3-4 minimum.

Attachment 10626
See my quick drawing. I would need to know the width between the verticals to fab the correct width step. Also would need to know what a good "run" or "depth" of the tread would be, I'm thinking around 8-12" maybe. I would be willing to donate the aluminum and my time to fab in my hobby shop.

Also, what's the time table?

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Originally Posted by scubadude

Attachment 10626
See my quick drawing. I would need to know the width between the verticals to fab the correct width step. Also would need to know what a good "run" or "depth" of the tread would be, I'm thinking around 8-12" maybe. I would be willing to donate the aluminum and my time to fab in my hobby shop.

Also, what's the time table?

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Currently, the decks have steps, not a ladder. It is hard to climb a ladder with doubles on.

Yes, I am familiar with what is there now, not sure where you got ladder from, guess my one dimensional drawing isn't clear. Seems like the stringers outlast the steps to a degree. If I remember correctly the steps are 2x lumber either nailed or lag screwed to the 2x stringers and they are scary at this point down in the water. I might be mixing up Hole with twin though. So what I was suggesting was still a stair step design not ladder. Only instead of 2x steps they would be 1/4" braced (channel shaped) alum through bolted into the stingers. So the whole stringer would need to rot out for the step to get scary, if that makes sense.
I can't remember if the stringers rest on the bottom of the pond or are secured in a different manner, guess I never looked closely.

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Originally Posted by FW

Currently, the decks have steps, not a ladder. It is hard to climb a ladder with doubles on.

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Maybe it's time we stopped catering to dinosaurs? (Relax, it's a joke!)

Sent from behind a pint of Guinness.

LOL, oh yeah, doubles, I forgot about those things :) kidding of course.
I was thinking about 6 or 8 nice new hooks to hang SM and deco tanks off of...

Forgive my ignorance here, but didnt the original WKPP (Chuck and his mates) built steps last for over 15 years? Surly that's a well proven design?

From Edd:

We have the build team already but the donations would be greatly appreciated so Cave Adventurers doesn't have to foot the total bill. The CFO would like anyone who wants to donate to send a check to us with name and contact info so we can thank everyone when the project is finished. Thanks for your support and interest in the project Scott, I really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Edd Sorenson


So just mail checks to:
5211 Limestone Lane
Marianna, FL 32446

SMH.

Someone needs to teach Edd about Paypal. A freaking check? As in, snail mail and a stamp? I don't think I even own one of those things. SMH.

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Originally Posted by Jax

SMH.

Someone needs to teach Edd about Paypal. A freaking check? As in, snail mail and a stamp? I don't think I even own one of those things. SMH.

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Just have your bank send it. Any modern bank has bill pay, and it takes the same effort as paypal.

Cant send Aussie checks to USA.....setup a paypal Edd!

Is there a timeline for this project? I will be at JB in a couple weeks, and can donate in person then.

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Originally Posted by FW

Is there a timeline for this project? I will be at JB in a couple weeks, and can donate in person then.

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+1


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Certainly just give a donation in person if you will be in JB. For those mailing checks here is the rest of the info:

From Edd: "Made out to Cave Adventurers and in the memo section put Dock fund donation."

I am mailing mine now hope everyone else does. Even if you can only donate a small amount it will be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by FW

Is there a timeline for this project? I will be at JB in a couple weeks, and can donate in person then.

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The timeline for this is being kept quiet by Edd. I'm sure you could call and find the exact date, but I was told he didn't want it to be made public. It's in late April. However, he's paying for the difference out of the Cave Adventurers fund. Anything made after that date will go towards replenishing that fund for repairs for other/future stuff. So, donations can be made to that cause even after it's been completed.

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Originally Posted by victorzamora

The timeline for this is being kept quiet by Edd. I'm sure you could call and find the exact date, but I was told he didn't want it to be made public. It's in late April. However, he's paying for the difference out of the Cave Adventurers fund. Anything made after that date will go towards replenishing that fund for repairs for other/future stuff. So, donations can be made to that cause even after it's been completed.

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That will work fine, then.

Count me in for a donation.

We have set up a paypal account for funds to come electronically any questions please call Jon at 678-523-4127 or Edd at the shop 850-482-6016. The paypal address to add funds is [email protected] This will be used to build and up-keep the dock also for repairs of Twin and Hole as needed to maintain it.

PAYPAL ADDRESS [email protected]

So far I want to thank all the people who have sent donations in. It is great to have so many people interested in keeping the docks safe. If you have sent in donations please PM me so I can get some info please. On the people who used paypal I will send you a email.

Again Thank you everyone.

Everyone we are getting close to just getting enough to cover the parts from lowes. Edd and Myself will be making up the difference and taking care of the misc items to build this dock, including fuel for boats generators etc. Please understand this is for all of us who dive these caves on the Mill Pond. We need your support on this project, every little bit will help make them better for future dives.

Thank you
Jon

Drat, I was just down there, and forgot to make a donation. I guess I will just use the PayPal address.

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Originally Posted by CRomine

I'd really discourage the use of trex, azek or any other composite decking. While the would hold up great underwater they are all far too flexible and will likely break under a heavy load (such as my fat ass in a set of 108's) Now, you could space your joist and stringers on 12" centers and it would probably be fine......but then you have the additional cost for that material. Personally I see nothing wrong with using 5/4 treated decking for the decks. I have enough 5/4 Ipe deck boards to do just the steps at both Twin and Hole. I'd be glad to donate it but we'd need to figure out a way to get it from VA to FL. Ipe coupled with the stainless all thread rods would make the steps damn near bullet proof.

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I gotta agree with Chris. That PVC based decking is very very flexible. I can't imagine it holding me up with a set of doubles unless we over engineer the crap out of it. The IPE that Chris is talking about (also known as Brazilian Walnut) is about the strongest, hardest wood you can get. It'll last forever, it's tough as hell, and it loves wet environments. If he has some to donate, take him up on it.

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Originally Posted by Jdotterer

We have set up a paypal account for funds to come electronically any questions please call Jon at 678-523-4127 or Edd at the shop 850-482-6016. The paypal address to add funds is [email protected] This will be used to build and up-keep the dock also for repairs of Twin and Hole as needed to maintain it.

PAYPAL ADDRESS [email protected]

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Yeay!!!!!! :smt041

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Originally Posted by Jdotterer

We have set up a paypal account for funds to come electronically any questions please call Jon at 678-523-4127 or Edd at the shop 850-482-6016. The paypal address to add funds is [email protected] This will be used to build and up-keep the dock also for repairs of Twin and Hole as needed to maintain it.

PAYPAL ADDRESS [email protected]

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Connie Dotterer, huh?

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Originally Posted by Jax

Connie Dotterer, huh?

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I suspect she is Jon's wife. When I sent in my donation, I got a thank you reply from Jon himself.

Connie set up the paypal account for Edd and myself. You should have got a email from me Jax thanking you correct?

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Originally Posted by FW

I suspect she is Jon's wife. When I sent in my donation, I got a thank you reply from Jon himself.

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Correct

Hole in the wall update:

Here are some pictures Prior to the steps going on. Tomorrow the steps will be in place and we will be hanging fire hose around the edge to protect boats from rubbing against it (thank you Fire Dept). I will be adding some pictures tomorrow of the steps installed.

Then we are moving on to repairing the stairs at Twin.

Excellent!

Here are some before pics.

Special thanks to all involved. Edd and the guys were hard at work on the steps yesterday.


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